Studying Theology

[Socialite]

We are looking from modern times to ancient times and trying to understand this whole thing backwards.

Paul wrote 3/4 of the NT. Seminaries spend time understanding ancient documents, understanding the theologies that are rich in those very letters that Paul wrote. Taking the timeless words of Jesus into the timely present.

When they said they were "unlearned and ignorant" this doesn't mean that's what they are. It may be how they were known --- these were blue collar fishermen! The contrast was that the crowd marveled because they knew they had been with Jesus. This wasn't with Jesus in a prayer room, this was literally, with Jesus for 3 years of ministry and discipleship. That can't be replicated by a seminary or "discipleship class," but uncovering the words Jesus shared and disciples recorded in the Gospels, is an important step.

Using Jesus as an example of someone "never learned" is quite humorous. The Word made Flesh. He didn't hang out in the Sanhedrin Council, but spoke with authority. Has nothing to do with the value of seminaries today!

To say Paul's knowledge and expertise had nothing to do with how he articulated his "inspiration" is foolish!! His dialogue on Mars Hill was subject matter he was well acquainted with. God's inspiration doesn't pen our words and description word-for-word. We speak of our inspired interaction with God using our own words, experiences, etc...

What is it you are advocating exactly????

A seminary education certainly isn't a requisite to share the Gospel. But it should be one for the person who wishes to give his life to the work of God (or at least some level of secondary learning in a time where it is so available and accessible).

Paul didn't persecute the church because of his seminary education lol How silly and what a preposterous claim! Paul did not preach or speak for 3 years. He had an interaction with God that I dare say is unique. His role in the NT Church is, thus, quite unique. The only Super Apostle who didn't walk with Jesus physically, or who wasn't commissioned during Jesus' time on earth. I hope you get the trend word here -- unique.

2,000 years later, different time, culture, place.... uncovering and understanding what was originally said, what was meant, how it was understood... these are timeless treasures, where when there is absence I've seen GRAVE error. The day of Pentecostals combatting higher learning is really behind us, with exception of a few. Thanks to Gordon Fee, Pentecostals even have a qualified scholar to point to (the first).

[Socialite]

The disciples walked with Jesus for 3 years
The disciples were... disciples for 3 years
The disciples learned from the Great Rabbi for 3 years
The disciples were face-to-face with the Ancient of Days, the Omniscient One, the Living Word

I think that qualifies as a sufficient training for ministry.

[seekerman]

Jesus required all His apostles to have doctorate degrees from an accredited seminary. They all also had extensive backgrounds in working their way up through religious systems and organizations.

Didn't they?

[Socialite]

Originally Posted by seekerman

Jesus required all His apostles to have doctorate degrees from an accredited seminary. They all also had extensive backgrounds in working their way up through religious systems and organizations.

Didn't they?

That was never the point of this thread, so your facetiousness is unfounded.

Anyone can be used to carry out God's mission.

Now, turn on your brain a moment with me --- the disciples lived in the current context of the life and times of Jesus. Many of them wrote what we now study as Scripture, recording their interactions with Jesus of Nazareth. Today, we are extensions of the People of the Way, a movement and group that began 2,000 years ago. That story is connected to stories and histories that go 2,000 or more years before that! We are talking thousands of years.

The accessibility of learning today removes any excuse for the person that feels Jesus has called them to teach, but doesn't want to put the work into "studying to show themselves approved." These "well, the disciples didn't have a degree" arguments are the most ignorant of all. The butchering, molesting and raping of Biblical texts by the ignorant, is a sin against God!

In this thread, it was never suggested that ALL ministers must attend Seminary. I think any teaching elder should make some progress in this area. And I think Seminary is a critical foundation piece for future generations, to keep learning alive, and that those generations ahead of us aren't disconnected from the momentum of understanding. Any Seminarian would also tell you that your learning is limited without the help of the Holy Spirit, and without being a believer in Jesus.

The value of studying theology shouldn't be looked down on. The student likewise shouldn't look down on. In fact, the more a person learns, often the more humble they become. It's the learned that don't form cults, divide over petty issues, and get hot under the collar for a two-bit theology. Churches should support young men and women in their congregation to be part of that future generation that gives their life to study. Teachers are gifts to the Church.

[Socialite]

Originally Posted by Socialite

In his book "The Seven Deadly Sins Today," journalist Henry Fairlie suggests that the motto for our times might be "The Revenge of Failure." If we cannot paint well, we destroy the canons of painting and pass ourselves as painters. If we cannot or will not read, we dismiss linear thinking as completely irrelevant and dispense with reading. In area after area, if we are not incline to submit to the rigors of the discipline ourselves, we destroy the standards and pass ourselves off as acceptable.

A different way to see the sin of envy?

I think this author has a good point

The most passionate objectors to Seminaries on AFF are those who have never been.

[Trouvere]

I love Bible school and love teaching.
Its not Higher Education I love but the Highest Education!!!!
Please note I am not against higher education. I have a Nursing degree and even a B.A.
but I love Bible.Its my favorite subject.
A pastor at least should be able to read the Texts in the Original languages.
Do the seminaries of our world teach truth????? Most do not.
My husband relates his experience as the time he went to cemetary..lol...
He spent most to the time arguing with the professors that the Bible was for today. Many told him that when he received his own doctorate degree then he too could determine what was the Word of God. Sad but true!!!!!

[Socialite]

Originally Posted by Trouvere

I love Bible school and love teaching.
Its not Higher Education I love but the Highest Education!!!!
Please note I am not against higher education. I have a Nursing degree and even a B.A.
but I love Bible.Its my favorite subject.
A pastor at least should be able to read the Texts in the Original languages.
Do the seminaries of our world teach truth????? Most do not.
My husband relates his experience as the time he went to cemetary..lol...
He spent most to the time arguing with the professors that the Bible was for today. Many told him that when he received his own doctorate degree then he too could determine what was the Word of God. Sad but true!!!!!

What is this "truth" you speak of? Do you mean, "do they agree with me on everything? Most don't."

The cemetery joke is and old and tired one, and usually told by people who've never been there.

The fact that he approached Bible school as a place to argue with professors shows how he viewed his "learning" process. His experience certainly has not been my own, and for major papers, I've disagreed often with my professors -- though, like any higher learning center, you must disagree with thoughtful, clear argumentation. Most of my professors appreciated disagreement if it met that criteria!

One doesn't need a PhD to know truth. One should have a degree if they are correcting another language expert who does have one in something technical, where it's clear who the expert is.

[Baron1710]

Originally Posted by Socialite

There are many on AFF that believe Seminaries are "against the Bible." That teaching should be passed on among one's own group and teaching elders, without resourcing out to "higher education." My friend, Appy, was one of those, as is MichaelTheDisciple.

What is always missed (or forgotten) are three things:
1) The rabbinic-style training Jesus put into his own disciples (the Son of God himself). The training someone like Apostle Paul received and used.

2) The enormous gulf of time, language, culture between our time and when parts of our canon was written present an incredible challenge. To suggest it's easy is not just simplistic, it's ignorant.

3) Every generation has dimensions of learning that are filtered and shared. The Universities and scholars all have a sphere of influence. As do writers and speakers, who most are educated through a bible school. These shape culture. If we lose our investment in disciplined thinkers, we, in time, will have no bearings of biblical acumen.

Here's a link with a short video on the topic. Curious as to the thoughts on AFF.

http://newtestamentperspectives.blog...e-matters.html

Intellect has no place in studying Scripture...It is all about the leading of the Spirit.

They don't teach the truth you would be paying to learn lies.

The Disciples never went to Seminary.

The writers of the New Testament were unlearned and ignorant...blah blah blah blah blah.

Now doesn't that all sound pretty stupid, when you read it out loud?

I think your post on envy says it all.

[Socialite]

Originally Posted by Baron1710

Intellect has no place in studying Scripture...It is all about the leading of the Spirit.

They don't teach the truth you would be paying to learn lies.

The Disciples never went to Seminary.

The writers of the New Testament were unlearned and ignorant...blah blah blah blah blah.

Now doesn't that all sound pretty stupid, when you read it out loud?

I think your post on envy says it all.

When you talk about the role of learning, dissenters make you choose between learning and Spirit... never both. Leads to head-scratching.

That list you posted above basically summarizes most threads on this topic.

[Baron1710]

Originally Posted by Socialite

When you talk about the role of learning, dissenters make you choose between learning and Spirit... never both. Leads to head-scratching.

That list you posted above basically summarizes most threads on this topic.

Yes, it is a false choice.

It is like saying you can eat cheap or you can eat healthy.