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  #11  
Old 11-09-2010, 10:00 PM
berkeley berkeley is offline
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Re: Ballestero's Holymess god lives in YESTERDAY .

Really? No spooning? Is this only in public?
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  #12  
Old 11-09-2010, 10:01 PM
berkeley berkeley is offline
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Re: Ballestero's Holymess god lives in YESTERDAY .

How can we have a future if we live in the past?
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  #13  
Old 11-09-2010, 10:03 PM
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Re: Ballestero's Holymess god lives in YESTERDAY .

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sam View Post
this is from “What Oneness Pentecostals Believe and Teach,” third edition by B.E. Echols, Marshall, TX, 1956 pages 10-12

A few things the Oneness Pentecostal People believe and teach that a Christian should NOT do or partake of are: drink beer, wine, whiskey ... use snuff or tobacco ...attend or take part in basketball, football and baseball games, picture shows, boxing and wrestling matches, visit pool halls, play golf or cards, dance, go swimming where both sexes are present ... telling jokes ... reading funny papers, novels ... listening in on comic radio programs and ungodly TV broadcasts. All such things rob a Christian of his spirituality and will eventually drown his soul in perdition.

Christian women should not bob their hair (1 Cor 11:5-11) get permanents (1 Tim 2:9, 10), wear jewelry as ornaments (this applies to men also); wear socks, use rouge and lip-stick or paint their eyebrows, eyelashes or fingernails; neither should they wear low neck, short skirt and short-sleeve dresses --especially in public ... (they should) abstain from all lustful and pagan customs of the ungodly, such as necking, kissing, spooning and keeping late hours at night.
Wear SOCKS? Are those supposed to be men's apparel or something?
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  #14  
Old 11-09-2010, 10:06 PM
DAII DAII is offline
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Re: Ballestero's Holymess god lives in YESTERDAY .

If God never changes and real Apostolics are measured by their past beliefs ... then I agree with Echols .... GOLF is of the DEBBIL.

Aside from football ... you won't find a sport with more alcohol consumption and wagering ..... in America.


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Last edited by DAII; 11-09-2010 at 10:10 PM.
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  #15  
Old 11-09-2010, 10:28 PM
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Re: Ballestero's Holymess god lives in YESTERDAY .

Quote:
Originally Posted by *AQuietPlace* View Post
Wear SOCKS? Are those supposed to be men's apparel or something?
That's from the old days when women were supposed to wear stockings because socks or anklets would expose some bare leg.

When I first came to Cincinnati in 1957 it was common for women to wear hose at all times --even at home. The idea was:
if you are going out in public, wear hose at all times,
Question: "Do I have to wear hose even in my house?"
Answer: Wear hose if you are going to go outside the house, if there is a chance that you may go outside the house, and if there is a chance that someone might drop by your house for a visit."

When I first came to Cincinnati in 1957 a woman was not considered "dressed for Sunday School" unless she had a hat, gloves, and hose. That was in the day before panty hose and hose or stockings required a girdle, garter belt, or garters. I remember hearing about a woman in our church who confessed in hushed tones that because they were so poor she had at times come to church without hose but her legs were tan enough that people either didn't notice or they didn't say anything to her. I remember a local OP preacher (not UPC but CoJC) that preached that women were to wear stockings and if they couldn't afford nylons then they should wear cotton stockings. That was in the late nineteen fifties I think. I'm old enough to remember women wearing cotton stockings. Over the years things have changed. At one time as compromise came in nylon stockings became acceptable instead of cotton stockings. Then as we sank lower, seamless hose became ok. Then panty hose. Then colored panty hose or tights. A couple of years ago I went to a camp meeting (UACoJC) and saw women bare legged and wearing flip flops.
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  #16  
Old 11-09-2010, 10:32 PM
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Re: Ballestero's Holymess god lives in YESTERDAY .

More stuff from the archives about the old paths and old landmars

The following article is from the November 18, 1958 issue of The Apostolic Sentinel, which was then the official publication off the Texas District ot the UPC.

HOLINESS
by B.E. Echols

God’s Lowest Standard of Christian Living
Texts: Heb 12:14, 1 John 3:10

Some folks, who call themselves Christians, will not accept “God’s Lowest Standard of Christian Living” as their highest standard. They claim to be Christians, but they indulge in sinful things every day. How can anyone, who habitually lives a life of sin, claim to be a child of a holy God --who associates Himself, and identifies Himself with nothing but HOLY ANGELS (Matt 25:31), HOLY PEOPLE (Deut 7:6 and 2 Cor 6:17, 18), HOLY APOSTLES (Eh 3:5), HOLY PROPHETS (Rev. 22:6), A HOLY CHURCH (Eph 5:25-27), A HOLY BIBLE (Rom 1:2) and A HOLY HEAVEN (2 Pet 3:13)? Precious hearts, there is no fellowship to be had with God by any spirit or person that is unclean or not holy.

THE LOWEST STANDARD

According to the Scriptures, there are not any standards below holy living which are acceptable with God. “He that committeth sin is of the devil” --so says one of the holy apostles. Have you not read where the Bible says, “Follow peace with all men, AND HOLINESS, without which NO MAN shall see the Lord”? Then, we further read in Rev 20:6, “Blessed and HOLY is he that hath part in the first resurrection, on such the second death hath no power...” Also, “Whosoever abideth in Him sinneth not; whosoever sinneth hath not seen Him, neither known Him.” For “whosoever doeth NOT righteousness is NOT OF GOD...” (1 John 3:6, 10)

A STANDARD WE MUST ATTAIN TO AND RETAIN

“The Pentecostal Movement,” of the 20th Century, came into being under the ministry of preachers who were living and preaching holiness as “God’s Lowest Standard of Christian Living,” and if we are to continue --as a group of God’s chosen people-- we must have pastors, evangelists, and teachers who preach and teach holiness and demand such of those who would associate themselves with us or desire our fellowship. We are definitely instructed by the Apostle Paul, to “have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness (sin), but rather reprove them.”

Paul further states in Rom 6:1, 2, 6 “What shall we say then? Shall we CONTINUE in sin (after God has saved us), that grace may abound (for forgiveness of sin every day we live, after being saved)? GOD FORBID. How shall we who are dead to sin, live any longer therein? ...Knowing this that our OLD MAN (the carnal man, that is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be” --Rom 8:7) is crucified with Him (Christ), that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth (from this time on) we SHOULD NOT serve sin.”

Then, we further read in Rom 6:11-14, “Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed (in fact or action) unto sin...Let not sin therefore (or for the reasons already stated) reign in your mortal (fleshly) body, that ye should obey it in the lusts thereof...For sin shall not have dominion over you.” Paul was a staunch believer in, and a great advocate of holiness, as “The Lowest Standard of Christian Living.”

HOLINESS, GOD’S STANDARD FOR ALL AGES

1. The Dispensation of Innocency. Go back to the garden of Eden and you will find that Adam and Eve were expelled from that earthly paradise because they sinned by transgression (Rom 5:12-14 and 1 Tim 2:14). If God put them out of the garden for committing sin, do you think He is going to permit people to sin (in any age) and stay in His holy church or go to heaven? See Rev 21:2, 7, 8 and Eph 5:25-27.

2. The Dispensation of Conscience or the “antediluvian age” --which extended from Adam’s expulsion from the garden of Eden on to the time of the flood. You know how God punished the first murderer of this age, Cain, and then sent that awful flood “upon the world of the ungodly” (2 Pet 3:5) Righteous Noah and his immediate family were the only ones who escaped the judgments of God at this time. It was holy living or punishment for sin, in this dispensation, the same as for Adam and Eve in the first one.

3-4. The Dispensation of Human Government and the Patriarchs, which extended from the time of the flood unto the giving of the law by Moses. How could anyone figure that God demanded less of the people of this dispensation, when He commanded of Abraham, “Walk before Me and be thou perfect,” and “rained upon Sodom and upon Gomorrah brimstone and fire from the Lord out of heaven” (Ge 19:24)? See also 2 Pet 2:6-8.


5. The Dispensation of the Law, extending from the giving of the law by Moses, unto the death of Jesus on the cross. “And the Lord spoke unto Moses, saying, ‘Speak unto ALL the congregation of the children of Israel, and say unto them, Ye SHALL BE holy...’ ” (Lev 19:1,2). There can be no argument here as to what God demanded of them. positively, they were to live free from sin and be a “holy nation” unto Him (Ex 19:6).

6, The Dispensation of Grace, extending from the death of Christ unto the beginning of His millennial reign on this earth. Every scriptural reference that we used under the “introductory headings” of this article applied to this dispensation of time. But for further proof, hear Jesus in His sermon on the Mount: “Except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall IN NO CASE enter into the kingdom of heaven” (Matt 5:20), and they were commanded to live holy during the law dispensation (Lev 19:1,2)

You might also read Luke 1:74-75; Titus 2:11, 12; 1 Thes 3:13, 4:7; 1 Cor 6:9, 10, 11; 15:34, 55-57 and 2 Cor 7:1. If these references do not demand that we live holy in the “Dispensation of Grace,” please inform me as to what dispensation of time they would apply.

7. The Kingdom Age or Dispensation, which begins and ends with our Lord’s one thousand year reign on this earth, which is to be a reign of peace and righteousness. His demands of that age will be nothing less than holiness and righteous living. See Isa 52:10-12.

Zechariah prophesied of that future day by saying, “In that day (see verses 16-20) shall there be upon the bells of the horses, HOLINESS UNTO THE LORD...Yea, every pot in Jerusalem and in Judah shall be HOLINESS unto the Lord of Hosts.” So, you see the Lord is going to have the pots people cook in, or use otherwise, and the bells on horses preaching and ringing out the message of holiness continually. How could a holy God demand less of any people of any age or dispensation? It never has been the case and it never will be anything less than holiness unto Him. Does He not say, “I am the Lord, I CHANGE NOT...”? (Mal 3:6). Then, the writer of Hebrews follows with these words, “Jesus Christ the same YESTERDAY (in His demands for holy living), and TODAY (His demands are the same), and FOREVER (it will still be holiness, as you will see in the following paragraphs).

THE ETERNAL CRY OF HEAVEN

Lest someone should forget God’s eternal demand of holiness, after they reach heaven, God has created FOUR BEASTS, as described in rev 4:6-9 TO CRY (translated “singing” by the R.S. version) the message of holiness “forever and ever” (vs. 9).

Oh glory, brother! I am glad I am one of those Pentecostal preachers who endeavors to live and preach holiness; for it is such ministers and saints, who are going to shine “as the stars forever and ever” (Dan 12:3).
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  #17  
Old 11-09-2010, 10:37 PM
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Re: Ballestero's Holymess god lives in YESTERDAY .

I believe this is Bro. Ballestero. I don't know the date or if it is the same Bro. Ballestero mentioned above.
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  #18  
Old 11-10-2010, 01:59 AM
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Re: Ballestero's Holymess god lives in YESTERDAY .

Quote:
Originally Posted by DAII View Post
In a rant to end all rants the Holiness police spokesperson, Martyn Ballestero unequivocally stated in his blog a couple of weeks ago ....



Not an ounce of exegesis found to support these positions but a hodge-podge of OT references that do not deal with Ballestero's 2Oth centrury Holymess Wardrobe doctrines that showed no separation or distinction in their heyday ....



http://martynballestero.com/2010/10/...past%E2%80%9D/

Do you even hear yourself, Marty???? If you blink ... you'll miss a move of God moving forward .... without you.
Typical poisoning the well and strawman argument.

The strawman argument is the "some say that we can’t live in the past" and "Evidently, old time Pentecost conflicts with their love for the world"

When the argument is "The bible does not support standards"..

It's really a biblical issue and the really funny thing is that people like this avoid the biblical issue to make the above accusations probably because they can't support their standards based on the bible but clearly here he believes it's not about the bible but about "the past" or the traditions of those that taught this stuff before him, as opposed to the traditions of the Apostles.

Im still waiting for them to take down that "Apostolic" sign or finally start greeting each other with a kiss
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Let it be understood that Apostolic Friends Forum is an Apostolic Forum.
Apostolic is defined on AFF as:


  1. There is One God. This one God reveals Himself distinctly as Father, Son and Holy Ghost.
  2. The Son is God himself in a human form or "God manifested in the flesh" (1Tim 3:16)
  3. Every sinner must repent of their sins.
  4. That Jesus name baptism is the only biblical mode of water baptism.
  5. That the Holy Ghost is for today and is received by faith with the initial evidence of speaking in tongues.
  6. The saint will go on to strive to live a holy life, pleasing to God.
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  #19  
Old 11-10-2010, 05:38 AM
DAII DAII is offline
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Re: Ballestero's Holymess god lives in YESTERDAY .

Quote:
Originally Posted by Praxeas View Post
Typical poisoning the well and strawman argument.

The strawman argument is the "some say that we can’t live in the past" and "Evidently, old time Pentecost conflicts with their love for the world"

When the argument is "The bible does not support standards"..

It's really a biblical issue and the really funny thing is that people like this avoid the biblical issue to make the above accusations probably because they can't support their standards based on the bible but clearly here he believes it's not about the bible but about "the past" or the traditions of those that taught this stuff before him, as opposed to the traditions of the Apostles.

Im still waiting for them to take down that "Apostolic" sign or finally start greeting each other with a kiss
Great post ....

They move on to inane strawman arguments ... like DeadHeart's recent Everest fallacy that wearing makeup, pants and jewelry would make his daughters two-bit whores ....

or when Enseyites argue that leaving their Holymess movement is one step to accepting or becoming a FLAMING homosexual.

Group think that uses manipulation, false guilt and threats ... JUST NO SOUND DOCTRINE.

We need to look no further that their construct of the past has become an idol ... when men pay 10,000 for a dead preacher's worn out $29.99 Bostonian shoes.
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Last edited by DAII; 11-10-2010 at 06:05 AM.
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  #20  
Old 11-10-2010, 06:23 AM
deacon blues deacon blues is offline
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Re: Ballestero's Holymess god lives in YESTERDAY .

Anything without Christ as the center becomes idolatry...
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