This is THE Church!

[coadie]

Originally Posted by Jason Badejo

I'm not sure where this name came in. This is not Kenneth Hagin's church. The pastors name was on the sign, I'm not going to disclose his name.

Hagin died. Rhema was his groups name.

[coadie]

Originally Posted by Mr. Smith

Quote:
Originally Posted by coadie
Did I read you claim to be a Pastor?

The nature of how you responded tells me Shepherding is not your style.

[Jason B]

Originally Posted by Mr. Smith

The bolded is an interesting concept coming from you, after you voiced your opinion that "Seeker" churches, which is the kind of church I pastor and the group of churches I associate with, don't preach repentance, don't teach the bible, and don't ask for commitment.

Yes, I'm still irritated about it!

Actually, I'm pretty open minded.

I believe practice is more important than doctrine. By that I mean that I think how someones lives their life in service to Christ, is far more important that what was said over them when they were baptized, whetehr or not they can explain the complexities of the Godhead, or if they have spoken unintelligle "words".

To explain further, when I say that practice is more important than doctrine, I don't mean that someone can do enough good works to earn salvation, neither do I mean that doctrine doesn't matter.

Doctrine does matter, but the problem in the church is decideing which doctrines ACTUALLY matter. What is worth breaking fellowship over? The fact that we as the church universal cannot agree on what is essential and non essential is severly hampering the impact the church could have on the world, and crippling the christian witness as a whole in the world.

What are those doctrines? I think hebrews 6:1-3 are a really good starting point, IMO. Unfortunaetly these things will probably not completely work themselves out until severe persecution (tribulation) hits, or until the second coming of the Lord Jesus Christ.

[coadie]

Originally Posted by Sam

It only takes two or more gathered in the name of the Lord to be a church.

I have no idea who this is and why they are a separate group.

I preached in an OP church a couple of weeks ago and there were 4 of us there --the pastor, one couple, and me. It is in a rural area near a small town and there is no other OP church for several miles that I know of. It was not UPC. The pastor is the same organization that I am, CoJCI, although he may be switching to CoJC in the near future.

It bothers me that there are so many OP churches that do not fellowship one another. And it also bothers me that OP churches do not ordinarily fellowship trinity churches but that's another story.

Some of this is in the house churches.

[coadie]

Originally Posted by Mr. Smith

The bolded is an interesting concept coming from you, after you voiced your opinion that "Seeker" churches, which is the kind of church I pastor and the group of churches I associate with, don't preach repentance, don't teach the bible, and don't ask for commitment.

Yes, I'm still irritated about it!

Which bible verses are the "ask for Commitment" verses?

[Jason B]

Originally Posted by Mr. Smith

The bolded is an interesting concept coming from you, after you voiced your opinion that "Seeker" churches, which is the kind of church I pastor and the group of churches I associate with, don't preach repentance, don't teach the bible, and don't ask for commitment.

Yes, I'm still irritated about it!

This is the type of theology I am against. If the shoe doesn't fit, don't wear it.........if it does then, I guess you'll remain irritated at me forever.


"A popular Christian magazine recently published an article arguing that Jesus' Lordship is an inappropriate topic to bring up in the course of witnessing to the lost. It is inappropriate to talk of the Lordship of Christ...said the magazine. This is a magazine very, very well known. It said, and I'm quoting from the magazine, "Since the decision to make Christ Lord is possible only for those who have already trusted Him as Savior, the gospel presentation should not contain anything about yielding in submission to Christ as Lord to be obeyed," end quote. "The gospel presentation should not contain anything about yielding in submission to Christ as Lord," said the magazine. You don't even want to talk about that.

I watched a film this afternoon for the second time, I watched it a day ago because the first time I watched it I couldn't believe what I was seeing. It was sent out to our church. It was sent to me because it was to be distributed all across this entire country to every church that had an AWANA program. It was a film designed to instruct people how to lead someone to Christ.

The film used some graphics, posed some questions and then asked if they were true or false. Let me tell you what some of the questions were and what the answer was.

In presenting the gospel, the narrator of the film said, should you ever ask these questions? Here are the questions.

Question number one: Should you say to someone, will you give your heart to Christ? Answer: False, you never want to say that to anyone. You never want to ask anyone to give anything to Christ. You don't want to ask them to give their life to Christ, you just ask them to believe.

Second question: Will you surrender your life to Christ? False, don't ever ask anyone to surrender anything.

Question number three: will you commit your life to Christ? False, don't ever ask anyone to do that.

Question number four: will you make Christ Lord of your life? Don't ever ask anyone to acknowledge that He has to be Lord of their life.

Question number five: will you repent of your sins? False, don't ever ask anyone to repent of their sins.

Question number six: are you willing to forsake your sins? False, don't ask anyone to do that." END QUOTE

source: http://www.gty.org/Resources/Sermons...ship+Salvation

[Mr. Smith]

Originally Posted by Jason Badejo

This is the type of theology I am against. If the shoes doesn't fit, don't wear it.....if it does.......?


"A popular Christian magazine recently published an article arguing that Jesus' Lordship is an inappropriate topic to bring up in the course of witnessing to the lost. It is inappropriate to talk of the Lordship of Christ...said the magazine. This is a magazine very, very well known. It said, and I'm quoting from the magazine, "Since the decision to make Christ Lord is possible only for those who have already trusted Him as Savior, the gospel presentation should not contain anything about yielding in submission to Christ as Lord to be obeyed," end quote. "The gospel presentation should not contain anything about yielding in submission to Christ as Lord," said the magazine. You don't even want to talk about that.

I watched a film this afternoon for the second time, I watched it a day ago because the first time I watched it I couldn't believe what I was seeing. It was sent out to our church. It was sent to me because it was to be distributed all across this entire country to every church that had an AWANA program. It was a film designed to instruct people how to lead someone to Christ.

The film used some graphics, posed some questions and then asked if they were true or false. Let me tell you what some of the questions were and what the answer was.

In presenting the gospel, the narrator of the film said, should you ever ask these questions? Here are the questions. Question number one: Should you say to someone, will you give your heart to Christ? Answer: False, you never want to say that to anyone. You never want to ask anyone to give anything to Christ. You don't want to ask them to give their life to Christ, you just ask them to believe.

Second question: Will you surrender your life to Christ? False, don't ever ask anyone to surrender anything.

Question number three: will you commit your life to Christ? False, don't ever ask anyone to do that.

Question number four: will you make Christ Lord of your life? Don't ever ask anyone to acknowledge that He has to be Lord of their life.

Question number five: will you repent of your sins? False, don't ever ask anyone to repent of their sins.

Question number six: are you willing to forsake your sins? False, don't ask anyone to do that." END QUOTE

source: http://www.gty.org/Resources/Sermons...ship+Salvation

None of this stuff is "Seeker" Jason. I keep trying to tell you this and you're not listening. AWANA is a million miles from "Seeker". Goodness.

What magazine are you talking about?

[Mr. Smith]

Originally Posted by coadie

Which bible verses are the "ask for Commitment" verses?

Seems like I've said this before, but nobody rattled your cage. Let Jason and I talk, please.

[Jason B]

Originally Posted by Mr. Smith

None of this stuff is "Seeker" Jason. I keep trying to tell you this and you're not listening. AWANA is a million miles from "Seeker". Goodness.

What magazine are you talking about?

Its not my quote......

[Jason B]

Originally Posted by Mr. Smith

None of this stuff is "Seeker" Jason. I keep trying to tell you this and you're not listening. AWANA is a million miles from "Seeker". Goodness.

What magazine are you talking about?

In doing some reaserch I was suprised to find that there is a doctrine called "Lordship Salvation" I was pretty suprised, because that is the position had arrived at from a three stepper to one who believes in salvation by grace by justification by faith. I guess that is why I like John MacArthurs stuff so much, he is a propent of said doctrine.

Anyway, when I found that doctrine actually ahd a name, I googled it, and was reading on Wiki about the criticism over that doctrine, and that there was another school of thought called "Free Grace" promoted by Hybels, Warrer, et al.

If Free Grace is what I have heard it to be, that would explain our fundamental difference.