Command or commandments?

[Rev.Richmond]

Originally Posted by Rev.Richmond

Eph 4:11-14 KJV - [11] And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers; WHY[12] For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ: I, for one, WANT to be perfect. I will listen.[13] Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ: I desire to be a true Christian. I will let God work on me through these men, as is His will.[14] That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive; If we treat so much of the Bible that came by the hand of apostles just as a merely good advice, we will reflect v14.

2Pe 1:21 KJV - [21] For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost. Here, Paul was addressing Timothy, a young minister and instructed him like this:1Ti 4:11 KJV - [11] These things command and teach.

1Cr 7:6 KJV - [6] But I speak this by permission, and not of commandment.
Here Paul makes a differentiation between his wise advice and the commandment of the spirit as it moved on him to write what would become part of the Bible.

Jhn 17 [6] I have manifested thy name unto the men which thou gavest me out of the world: thine they were, and thou gavest them me; and they have kept thy word. [7] Now they have known that all things whatsoever thou hast given me are of thee. [8] For I have given unto them the words which thou gavest me; and they have received them, and have known surely that I came out from thee, and they have believed that thou didst send me. ... [12] While I was with them in the world, I kept them in thy name: those that thou gavest me I have kept, and none of them is lost, but the son of perdition; that the scripture might be fulfilled. ... [14] I have given them thy word; and the world hath hated them, because they are not of the world, even as I am not of the world. ... [18] As thou hast sent me into the world, even so have I also sent them into the world. ... [20] Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word;

Originally Posted by Rev.Richmond

If you wish to come back and simply state just your opinion, please don't. However if you wish to investigate and disect the scriptures that I presented, please do.

Hope your night is going better than mine: I worked 16 hrs, slept about 6 and now get to work for 10 more. YES! lol

bump

[Jack Shephard]

Originally Posted by Rev.Richmond

If you wish to come back and simply state just your opinion, please don't. However if you wish to investigate and disect the scriptures that I presented, please do.

Hope your night is going better than mine: I worked 16 hrs, slept about 6 and now get to work for 10 more. YES! lol

Wouldn't 'investigating and disecting' the scripture still come down to my opinion? So basically you don't want me to answer.

[Jack Shephard]

Originally Posted by Rev.Richmond

bump

Sorry I am still at work and not readily available to answer back.

[Rev.Richmond]

Originally Posted by JTULLOCK

Sorry I am still at work and not readily available to answer back.

So basically, you don't want you to answer.


































Sorry, I had to.

[Jack Shephard]

Originally Posted by Rev.Richmond

Eph 4:11-14 KJV - [11] And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers; WHY[12] For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ: I, for one, WANT to be perfect. I will listen.[13] Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ: I desire to be a true Christian. I will let God work on me through these men, as is His will.[14] That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive; If we treat so much of the Bible that came by the hand of apostles just as a merely good advice, we will reflect v14.

2Pe 1:21 KJV - [21] For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost. Here, Paul was addressing Timothy, a young minister and instructed him like this:1Ti 4:11 KJV - [11] These things command and teach.

1Cr 7:6 KJV - [6] But I speak this by permission, and not of commandment.
Here Paul makes a differentiation between his wise advice and the commandment of the spirit as it moved on him to write what would become part of the Bible.

Jhn 17 [6] I have manifested thy name unto the men which thou gavest me out of the world: thine they were, and thou gavest them me; and they have kept thy word. [7] Now they have known that all things whatsoever thou hast given me are of thee. [8] For I have given unto them the words which thou gavest me; and they have received them, and have known surely that I came out from thee, and they have believed that thou didst send me. ... [12] While I was with them in the world, I kept them in thy name: those that thou gavest me I have kept, and none of them is lost, but the son of perdition; that the scripture might be fulfilled. ... [14] I have given them thy word; and the world hath hated them, because they are not of the world, even as I am not of the world. ... [18] As thou hast sent me into the world, even so have I also sent them into the world. ... [20] Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word;

All of this is good practices but not commandments. Even where you bolded "command" actually mean to command the teaching from memory as in to remember it not literally command someone to do something. Command=remember.

[Jack Shephard]

Originally Posted by Rev.Richmond

So basically, you don't want you to answer.


































Sorry, I had to.

Look up and you you will see my answer. Time is up for me. Heading home. G-nite. God Bless!

[Rev.Richmond]

Originally Posted by JTULLOCK

Wouldn't 'investigating and disecting' the scripture still come down to my opinion?

NO

That's why I said "DISECT." Take each scripture and point I presented and comment with your understanding or lack thereof. [not that i think youre an idiot, i do not, we all are still learning]

[Rev.Richmond]

Originally Posted by JTULLOCK

All of this is good practices but not commandments. Even where you bolded "command" actually mean to command the teaching from memory as in to remember it not literally command someone to do something. Command=remember.

That's not what Strong's Concordance says: paraggellō
verb
1) to transmit a message along from one to another, to declare, announce

2) to command, order, charge
-------------------------------------------------------------
Also, I think its a shame to toss out God's word by excuse.
2Ti 3:16-17 KJV - [16] All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: [17] That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.

How can one get around this?? And WHY WOULD SOMEONE WANT TO ANYWAY? The Spirit of God would not direct someone to try to find loopholes in the scripture. That means that one is not led of the spirit. That only leaves one other leader: the flesh, our carnality.
Rom 8:5-8 KJV - [5] For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit. [6] For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace. [7] Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be. [8] So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.
The carnal mind refuses to submit to the law of God.
1Cr 2:14 KJV - [14] But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.
No one can even begin to have a clear understanding of the things of God, includeing scriputures, until they receive the HolyGhost.

Again, please take a minuit to disect these scriptures. I only hunger for the whole council of God and do not lean nor give time to the traditions of men or our logic; for His way are above our ways and His thoughts above our thoughts.

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by Godsdrummer

In my life I and we always used the passages of John 15:10, John 14:15 and 14:21 Joh 14:15 If ye love me, keep my commandments.
To preach that we must obey all the rules dictated in the bible to please God even those things we saw as standards whether they were miss translations or not. I just realized something today as I checked the passages I found that to use this idea is to take scripture out of context and make it say something it does not say.

First the same word translated for commandment and commandments is the same word and it is a singular not plural word in order for it to be plural there must be prepositions or adjetives describing multiple commandments as in Matt 22:40.

Second using this passage to preach other so called commandments is improper diving of scripture. Jesus only speaks of one commandment in these passages and that is to love one another as God loved us.

So the question I ask is how can you take this passage to try and make someone feel guilty of not keeping mans traditions and rules ie standards of holiness, even to preach baptism when Jesus did not speak of any of these things in this passage. This is kin to taking one scripture and another from two or several different places to preach our own ideas.

An example is taking Deut. 22:5 and preaching that a women cannot wear pants because one thinks it is mens apparel. Ignoring the fact that all men and women wore robes in those days, that had little difference in appearance one from the other.

Or teaching it is sin to drink wine based on a few scriptures that speak of drinking till one becomes drunk, ignoring many other passages that speak of drinking wine. And further misunderstanding the fact that all wine or juice of that day was fermented. As fermentation was the only way they could cleanse the impurities out of the grape juice.

According to the greek the word is plural. It has a plural ending

[Praxeas]

The word "command" that was in bold is in the imperative mood

imperative — The mood that normally expresses a command, intention, exhortation, or polite request. The imperative mood is therefore not an expression of reality but possibility and volition.

Heiser, M. S. (2005; 2005). Glossary of Morpho-Syntactic Database Terminology. Logos Bible Software.

It means "to announce what must be done—‘to order, to command.’

Louw, J. P., & Nida, E. A. (1996). Vol. 1: Greek-English lexicon of the New Testament : Based on semantic domains (electronic ed. of the 2nd edition.) (425). New York: United Bible societies.

3. The same point is to be seen in the Pauline Epistles, which alone in the NT use the noun as well as the verb. Here the reference is always to the Christian walk. Even in 1 Tm. 1:3, where Timothy is given the task of issuing a sharp prohibition against the false teachers, παραγγελία has according to 1:5 the positive goal of “love out of a pure heart, and a good conscience, and faith unfeigned.” For Paul, too, the decisive authority is the word of the Lord, from which (1 C. 7:10) he emphatically differentiates his own pastoral counsel in the question of separation. In general, however, his instructions, including that concerning women covering their heads at divine service, have the character of authoritative apostolic ordinances, behind which stands the full authorisation of Christ Himself. Thus when he beseeches and admonishes the Thessalonians Paul can refer to the directions which were given “by the Lord Jesus” at the founding of the church, 1 Th. 4:2; cf. 2 Th. 3:10. Again, when he renews these παραγγελίαι in a letter with reference to those who are disorderly (2 Th. 3:12), and when he commands withdrawal from “every brother that walketh disorderly” (2 Th. 3:6), this takes place “in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ” or “in the Lord Jesus Christ.” In the apostle’s saying, then, the readers have to do with the Lord Himself, even though, as in 1 C. 7:10, Paul cannot quote any traditional saying of Jesus.
In 1 Tm. παραγγέλλειν is one of the special tasks of the recipient of the letter. The apostle authorises him to discharge this ministry to the community (4:11; 5:7). He acts on this commission (1:18). He is to command, esp. false teachers (1:3f. → n. 32, 33), widows (5:7), and those who are rich in this world (6:17). In so doing, however, he must himself be under the apostle’s order “to keep the commandment” in such a way that he is without spot or blame “until the appearing of our Lord Jesus Christ,” 6:13f. This order of the apostle does not rest on his own authority. It is given in the sight of God, who calls all things to life, and also in that of Christ Jesus, who witnessed a good confession before Pontius Pilate. With great seriousness all genuine παραγγέλλειν is thus referred back to its origin in the saving Messianic work of the Creator. It is thus distinguished radically from all religious or ethical injunctions which do not have their roots in the soil of the saving events of the NT.36


. Vol. 5: Theological dictionary of the New Testament. 1964- (G. Kittel, G. W. Bromiley & G. Friedrich, Ed.) (electronic ed.) (764–765). Grand Rapids, MI: Eerdmans.