looking for a prooftext ... - Page 2

Barb · #11 03-13-2010, 01:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pressing-On

Daniel,
If halal defines itself as being "clamorously foolish", "to shine", "to make a show", I think it then leaves that expression up to the individual.

What say you?

*sigh* I am SO weary of folks trying to low grade everything connected with being Pentecostal.

I know this is a public forum, and diversity of opinion is fine, but the CONSTANT harangue against everything I believe is beyond old.

So, goodbye cruel world...he's not going to stop, and it's not worth my time any more to care.

Phil Stearns · #12 03-13-2010, 01:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by freeatlast

2 Samuel 22:30
For by thee I have run through a troop: by my God have I leaped over a wall.

Hopefully no one thought I was serious with this reference ;-)

I doubt you'll find any proof text, other that scriptures where someone leaped for joy.

Leaping for joy being a physical action in response to God'd spirit moving upon someone could give license to all matter of other exubuarant physical forms of praise.

While we are looking for proof texts , maybe we could find one on running the backs of the pews.

I visited a church years ago that had this practice. Amazingly, most all the pews were breaking loose from their floor anchors.
I can only imangine God received great glory from this.

You are TOO funny. LOL

Praxeas · #13 03-13-2010, 01:57 PM

OPV Gal 5:7 You were running the aisles well. Who hindered you from obeying the truth?

Praxeas · #14 03-13-2010, 02:03 PM

halal. It does not mean you can do whatever you want. The ONLY time it is translated the way you are saying is in cases like this

1Sa 21:13 So he changed his behavior before them and pretended to be insane in their hands and made marks on the doors of the gate and let his spittle run down his bear

Praxeas · #15 03-13-2010, 02:05 PM

Something to think about
(Heb. halal) (146:1, 10; 147:1; 149:3; 150:1, 6) Strong’s #1984: The verb halal is a common Hebrew word for praise. It may be used to exalt human beauty (Song 6:9), a virtuous wife (Prov. 31:30), or a wise man (Prov. 12:8), but most frequently halal is used to praise God. It often occurs in the imperative, expressing an exhortation or command: “Praise!” (135:1) or “Praise Him” (150:2). The most familiar example of the imperative is halleluyah (meaning “Praise the LORD!”; see 146:1; 150:6), a combination of halal and the divine name Yah. The last five psalms present a climax to the praises contained in the Book of Psalms, commanding believers (145:10), the Israelites (149:2), the angels (148:2), Jerusalem itself (147:12), the heavens (148:1), and finally every being that has breath (150:6) to praise the Almighty God, the Creator of the universe.
Radmacher, E. D., Allen, R. B., & House, H. W. (1997). The Nelson study Bible : New King James Version. Nashville: T. Nelson Publishers.

When was the last time you saw a man rolling on the ground to praise his wife? Or running around in circles?

Jeffrey · #16 03-13-2010, 02:08 PM

It's from the Prodigal Son. We are intimating the actions of the Father, and running to meet him!

I think it started as "marching 'round the walls" and folks got more excited... "walking isn't enough when you feel the glory of God on you, brother."

Praxeas · #17 03-13-2010, 02:16 PM

It seems when used of Praise it doesn't mean to act foolishly, like a fool or a drunk who is running around in circles but audibly "raving" about how great someone is or God is

הָלַל hâlal, haw-lal´; a prim. root; to be clear (orig. of sound, but usually of color); to shine; hence to make a show, to boast; and thus to be (clamorously) foolish; to rave; causat. to celebrate; also to stultify:—(make) boast (self), celebrate, commend, (deal, make), fool (-ish, -ly), glory, give [light], be (make, feign self) mad (against), give in marriage, [sing, be worthy of] praise, rage, renowned, shine.
Strong, J., S.T.D., LL.D. (2009). A Concise Dictionary of the Words in the Greek Testament and The Hebrew Bible. Bellingham, WA: Logos Research Systems, Inc.

The idea of Halal or praise is directed TOWARDS the object, in this case God...running around in circles is not directed towards God. Words of praise are. Saying to or about God how great He is, is.

Look, in my church I have seen little kids running, they are laughing and looking at each other and even seem to be chasing each other...no different than they are outside on the play ground. Some might think that is worship, but there is no biblical description or command that says "if you run around in circles you are praising God"

For the most part leaping or running or other signs of physical exuberance are more forms of celebrations or releasing of pent up excitement than actual praises directed towards God.

God might be pleased and all, but I have to ask if it is really about praise why do people only run when the music is fast?

Praxeas · #18 03-13-2010, 02:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeffrey

It's from the Prodigal Son. We are intimating the actions of the Father, and running to meet him!

I think it started as "marching 'round the walls" and folks got more excited... "walking isn't enough when you feel the glory of God on you, brother."

From my observation they never do meet him, they just keep running in circles until they are tired or the music stops

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I_mb_c8su7k

JN Anderson · #19 03-13-2010, 02:44 PM

I don't think we need a proof-text for everything we do in practicum. I think it is nice to but would reserve laboring for a prooftext on doctrinal issues.

Pressing-On · #20 03-13-2010, 03:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Praxeas

It seems when used of Praise it doesn't mean to act foolishly, like a fool or a drunk who is running around in circles but audibly "raving" about how great someone is or God is

הָלַל hâlal, haw-lal´; a prim. root; to be clear (orig. of sound, but usually of color); to shine; hence to make a show, to boast; and thus to be (clamorously) foolish; to rave; causat. to celebrate; also to stultify:—(make) boast (self), celebrate, commend, (deal, make), fool (-ish, -ly), glory, give [light], be (make, feign self) mad (against), give in marriage, [sing, be worthy of] praise, rage, renowned, shine.
Strong, J., S.T.D., LL.D. (2009). A Concise Dictionary of the Words in the Greek Testament and The Hebrew Bible. Bellingham, WA: Logos Research Systems, Inc.

The idea of Halal or praise is directed TOWARDS the object, in this case God...running around in circles is not directed towards God. Words of praise are. Saying to or about God how great He is, is.

Look, in my church I have seen little kids running, they are laughing and looking at each other and even seem to be chasing each other...no different than they are outside on the play ground. Some might think that is worship, but there is no biblical description or command that says "if you run around in circles you are praising God"

For the most part leaping or running or other signs of physical exuberance are more forms of celebrations or releasing of pent up excitement than actual praises directed towards God.

God might be pleased and all, but I have to ask if it is really about praise why do people only run when the music is fast?

I agree that it does not mean to act as a fool, but it certainly doesn't set a definite boundary on self-expression. You have centered on "audibly" raving". That is not the only definition. "Celebrate" can cover a lot of self-expression. "Clamorously foolish" appears to be defined in that way toward those that viewed someone like Michal. I would hope we wouldn't want to be in her camp.

We see that David "danced" in his praise. What does "dance" mean in this instance? - "to whirl". He was whirling while he was dancing. That was how he wanted to express his deep and heartfelt worship. He danced and whirled with ALL of his "might", which means that he danced/whirled with ALL of his "strength."

We can look at two children laughing and looking at each other. That doesn't mean that EVERYONE that expresses themselves, in such as way, is also behaving like the children.

I have seen sincere worship in many forms. I have seem people, who were not sincere, for whatever reason, doing the same things. Do I exclude all self-express because of this? That would be foolish.

If someone feels, as David, that whirling is directing their praise TO God - let them whirl!

I think it is unfortunate for you to say you know the heart of every person, in their worship, by saying:

Quote:

For the most part leaping or running or other signs of physical exuberance are more forms of celebrations or releasing of pent up excitement than actual praises directed towards God.

If David danced with all of his might/strength, what would be the absolute difference in someone being excited in their leaping or running? There is no difference. Therefore, it would be disingenuous of you to label that as excitement only and emphatically label that as not toward God nor an actual praise to God.