Lot's Revelation of Grace

[freeatlast]

Originally Posted by mizpeh

Why can't the attack be aimed at what he has written and not the person?

Did you happen to read One Accord's new thread about the island's shrinking?

"Touch not my anointed."

We want touch to mean critique .

and anointed to mean preachers.

[Baron1710]

Originally Posted by mizpeh

Why can't the attack be aimed at what he has written and not the person?

Did you happen to read One Accord's new thread about the island's shrinking?

I don't know railroadford, I didn't attack anyone. However, the conclusion drawn by him were aimed at a specific group of people, those that don't buy into the traditions-are-equal-to-Scripture crowd. So for Kim to flip the tables and pint this out was not an attack on the individual but on the attitude that is displayed by the crowd railroad allegedly runs with. I personally don't know him or who he hangs out with, but if he chooses to generalize the grace crowd (With a bad application of Scripture) then he really can't complain when those that hold his views are generalized.

[Theophil]

Originally Posted by Kim Komando

This is about the time of 2 or 3 of them will pop in here and say " This forum isnt apostolic. It is apostate" and RRFord will chime in with "This is why I don't post here, like I used too."

They don't want their teaching to be criticized in light of the Word.

To RR's credit, he would not sign the WeDeclare garbage. He has been an outspoken critic of it even to the dismay of his colleagues.

LOL!

[*AQuietPlace*]

No one who loves God will want to live unrighteously or ungodly. They will want to live in a way that truly pleases God. If someone uses grace as a license to sin then they're not really trying to please God.

The problem comes in when we declare other people unrighteous because they don't live the way we think they should. Let's let God be the judge. The robe doesn't fit us well.

[Theophil]

Originally Posted by *AQuietPlace*

No one who loves God will want to live unrighteously or ungodly. They will want to live in a way that truly pleases God. If someone uses grace as a license to sin then they're not really trying to please God.

The problem comes in when we declare other people unrighteous because they don't live the way we think they should. Let's let God be the judge. The robe doesn't fit us well.

Great post!

[notofworks]

Originally Posted by rrford

Lot's Revelation of Grace

A story is told about Fiorello LaGuardia, who, when he was mayor of New York City during the worst days of the Great Depression and all of WWII, was called by adoring New Yorkers 'the Little Flower' because he was only five foot four and always wore a carnation in his lapel. He was a colorful character who used to ride the New York City fire trucks, raid speakeasies with the police department, take entire orphanages to baseball games, and whenever the New York newspapers were on strike, he would go on the radio and read the Sunday funnies to the kids. One bitterly cold night in January of 1935, the mayor turned up at a night court that served the poorest ward of the city. LaGuardia dismissed the judge for the evening and took over the bench himself.

Within a few minutes, a tattered old woman was brought before him, charged with stealing a loaf of bread. She told LaGuardia that her daughter's husband had deserted her, her daughter was sick, and her two grandchildren were starving. But the shopkeeper, from whom the bread was stolen, refused to drop the charges. "It's a real bad neighborhood, your Honor." the man told the mayor. "She's got to be punished to teach other people around here a lesson." LaGuardia sighed. He turned to the woman and said "I've got to punish you. The law makes no exceptions--ten dollars or ten days in jail." But even as he pronounced sentence, the mayor was already reaching into his pocket. He extracted a bill and tossed it into his famous sombrero saying: "Here is the ten dollar fine which I now remit; and furthermore I am going to fine everyone in this courtroom fifty cents for living in a town where a person has to steal bread so that her grandchildren can eat. Mr. Baliff, collect the fines and give them to the defendant."

So the following day the New York City newspapers reported that $47.50 was turned over to a bewildered old lady who had stolen a loaf of bread to feed her starving grandchildren, fifty cents of that amount being contributed by the red-faced grocery store owner, while some seventy petty criminals, people with traffic violations, and New York City policemen, each of whom had just paid fifty cents for the privilege of doing so, gave the mayor a standing ovation.

When a person works an eight-hour day and receives a fair day's pay for his time, that is a wage. When a person competes with an opponent and receives a trophy for his performance, that is a prize. When a person receives appropriate recognition for his long service or high achievements, that is an award. But when a person is not capable of earning a wage, can win no prize, and deserves no award--yet receives such a gift anyway--that is a good picture of God's unmerited favor. This is what we mean when we talk about the grace of God. (Source of illustration unknown.)

Grace, in a basic sense is the unmerited favor of God towards man. We did not earn it nor do we deserve it. With that in mind I believe that we must be incredibly careful how we define it and what we do in the name of grace.

Grace As It Relates To Holiness Is A TEACHER. Titus 2:11-12 "For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men, Teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world;" Grace was not only good enough to save us but it is also powerful enough to sanctify us.

Tell me then, please, how people that claim “grace” can live in an ungodly lifestyle? There are some who will still not heed some of the things that have been taught by their Pastor and will in their own way use “grace” as the reason why.

WOW!!!! GREAT story!

And then you said, "With that in mind I believe that we must be incredibly careful how we define it" and I said, "uh oh"....'here comes that "Don't you people use grace as a credit card' teaching".

Romans 4:4..."When people work, their wages are not a gift, but something they have earned. But people are counted as righteous, not because of their work, but because of their faith in God who forgives sinners."

Why do we feel the humanistic need to follow up teachings of grace with our humanistic warnings? Just let grace be grace!!

[EA]

Great post, rrford! I don't agree with all of it, but I do agree with the idea that we need to treat God's grace as a precious gift.

[EA]

BTW, I think some of us are being way too critical.

The story of Lot's family has always amazed and concerned me.

[*AQuietPlace*]

Originally Posted by Edward Anglin

I do agree with the idea that we need to treat God's grace as a precious gift.

Yes. Paul addressed this.

[Rhoni]

Originally Posted by OneAccord

Good teaching, Bro. RR. To me, grace is not the license to commit sin or to have sin in our lives, but rather, grace is the God given ability to escape a sinful life. Grace is seen when Abraham and Lot went their separate ways. Abraham gave Lot the chance to choose his own destiny. Rather than looking to the Lord for direction, Lot chose the path he could see with his eyes and ended up in a place he shouldn't have been. Grace is when God says "Choose you this day whom you will serve." When we choose to follow the Lord, He extends His grace to us, leading us in His ways, and enabling us to "live godly, soberly and righteously in this present world".

This reminded me of a car bumper sticker I saw this week: "God does not excuse sin...He forgives sin." There is a difference.

Romans tells us that God's grace does not give us license to sin, but if we do...we go to God, confess, and repent and He is faithful and just to forgive our sin.

Blessings, Rhoni