1 John 5:7 - Page 2

pelathais · #11 10-29-2009, 12:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MissBrattified

You're a veritable storehouse of knowledge, pel!!!

nah. Erasmus was one of those guys. That's why his story sort of sticks with me. He was truly amazing in many ways.

He was probably the first real Reformer since John Hus, but he never left the RCC. He said something along the line that he preferred to remain and be "nettlesome" and work for change and reform from within.

His contemporary, Martin Luther, was a different sort. Two guys, both saw the same problem and both tried to work at it in their own way. I always thought Erasmus had class.

jfrog · #12 10-29-2009, 12:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pelathais

nah. Erasmus was one of those guys. That's why his story sort of sticks with me. He was truly amazing in many ways.

He was probably the first real Reformer since John Hus, but he never left the RCC. He said something along the line that he preferred to remain and be "nettlesome" and work for change and reform from within.

His contemporary, Martin Luther, was a different sort. Two guys, both saw the same problem and both tried to work at it in their own way. I always thought Erasmus had class.

Nah, he should have just left if he disagreed.

jkjk

pelathais · #13 10-29-2009, 01:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jfrog

Nah, he should have just left if he disagreed.

jkjk

Yeah. "Build a bridge and get over it!" C'mon, who wants all that hassle?

"If your opinions have changed then be a gentleman and turn in your card." I remember hearing that at a GC business meeting. The part he left out was: "or if you do not agree with the changes the org. has made..."

Funny, "the org." never "changes." Despite all of the voting and resolutions and rewriting and redrafting of documents, amendments and changes to the Fundamental Doctrine and Articles of Faith: the org. never changes.

They said pretty much the same thing to Wycliffe, Hus, Erasmus, Luther, Calvin, Zwingli and all the rest.

Praxeas · #14 10-29-2009, 01:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pelathais

nah. Erasmus was one of those guys. That's why his story sort of sticks with me. He was truly amazing in many ways.

He was probably the first real Reformer since John Hus, but he never left the RCC. He said something along the line that he preferred to remain and be "nettlesome" and work for change and reform from within.

His contemporary, Martin Luther, was a different sort. Two guys, both saw the same problem and both tried to work at it in their own way. I always thought Erasmus had class.

I never realized you were that old. New him well did you?

coadie · #15 10-29-2009, 07:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jfrog

Yea, that's the impression I got from what all I was reading. I haven't investiaged all the claims yet, but it seems there are a few church fathers who quote this verse in their writings early on (I've not verified this yet). I've also read the greek grammer isn't consistent without verse 7 (I have no idea on greek grammer so I have no way to investiage this).

I posted this yesterday.. In the Martin Luther 1545 bible it wasn't in there. The Spirit Water and blood are one. Geist, wasser und das blut

6 Dit es dee, dee derch Wota en Bloot kjeem, Jesus Christus; nich bloos derch Wota, oba derch Wota en Bloot.

7 En daut es de Jeist dee Zeichness jeft, wiel dee Jeist es de Woarheit.

8 Dan doa sent dree dee Zeichness jaewe: de Jeist en daut Wota en daut Bloot: en dise dree stemme toop.

Plattdeutsch version

(low german)

Jeffrey · #16 10-29-2009, 11:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jfrog

Good job jeffery, you tell me it's not a problem and offer no explanation of why it isn't a problem.

I'm sorry.

It is my opinion that accepting the TR and/or Erasmus version of the text does not conflict with the Shema, that God is one and there are no other gods beside him. "Bearing record" has to do with the testimony of God at work. A pure modalist would explain these records of testimony as proof that the godhead is about the One, eternal God, manifesting himself to His creation, and that these relationships are further defined and to be made sense in light of the next verse "blood, water, and Spirit."

I personally don't accept that rendering of the passage, but only because it doesn't seem to fit.

Here's the ESV

Testimony Concerning the Son of God
6This is he who came(K) by water and blood—Jesus Christ; not by the water only but by the water and the blood. And(L) the Spirit is the one who testifies, because(M) the Spirit is the truth. 7For there are three that testify: 8the Spirit and the water and the blood; and these three agree. 9(N) If we receive the testimony of men, the testimony of God is greater, for this is the testimony of God(O) that he has borne concerning his Son. 10Whoever believes in the Son of God(P) has the testimony in himself. Whoever does not believe God(Q) has made him a liar,(R) because he has not believed in the testimony that God has borne concerning his Son. 11And this is the testimony, that God gave us(S) eternal life, and(T) this life is in his Son. 12(U) Whoever has the Son has life; whoever does not have the Son of God does not have life.

Here's the Message (more of a commentary/paraphrase than a translation)
6-8Jesus—the Divine Christ! He experienced a life-giving birth and a death-killing death. Not only birth from the womb, but baptismal birth of his ministry and sacrificial death. And all the while the Spirit is confirming the truth, the reality of God's presence at Jesus' baptism and crucifixion, bringing those occasions alive for us. A triple testimony: the Spirit, the Baptism, the Crucifixion. And the three in perfect agreement.

Scott Hutchinson · #17 10-29-2009, 02:59 PM

I own a message but I really don't care for it.But I love the ESV,ASV,NASB,NKJV besides the KJV those are my faves.

Aquila · #18 10-29-2009, 03:04 PM

I'm big on ESV, KJV, NIV, and NLT (for paraphrase). I primarily use the Message for bathroom reading.

Scott Hutchinson · #19 10-29-2009, 03:13 PM

I like the literal translations,I do use the Amplified for study as well.
I'm not a big NIV fan but it's ok.

Jeffrey · #20 10-29-2009, 03:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aquila

I'm big on ESV, KJV, NIV, and NLT (for paraphrase). I primarily use the Message for bathroom reading.

Sorry bro, but NIV, KJV and ESV are not paraphrases, they are translations with varying degrees of differences -- some from the school of word-for-word, and some from the school of thought-for-thought.

Good book for choosing what you need: http://www.christianbook.com/Christi...&item_no=78766