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10-02-2009, 03:33 PM
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Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: "New" Mexico
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Re: How to destroy holiness- A primer
Quote:
Originally Posted by El Predicador
A Lesson in Self-Defeat
If someone wanted to set back our holiness tradition for the next generation I would suggest the following course of action:
1.Begin a series of articles and sermons targeting those weak on holiness and new birth.
2.Right before the denominational conference start an internet site, something along the lines of We Proclaim.
3.As part of the "proclamations" be sure that culottes and dealing with split ends gets equal billing with the new birth.
4.Perhaps most important of all, in one fell swoop just announce that heaven or hell issues such as TV, movies, wedding bands etc. are no longer heaven or hell issues( like have been preached for generations) and should be left up to the local pastor to teach as he sees fit.
5.Maneuver behind the scenes so the pastor of the man most vocal about dialoguing with those whom you insist must be expelled from the organization gets elected General Superintendent.
6.Going around thumping chests as though a great victory had been accomplished when in fact through these actions the cause of traditional standards have been set back farther than the targets in number 1 ever could have accomplished.
Thank God no one is actually foolish enough to do this right?
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Interesting perspective
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10-02-2009, 03:34 PM
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Registered Member
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Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 142
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Re: How to destroy holiness- A primer
Quote:
Originally Posted by Apocrypha
NIV© Make every effort to live in peace with all men and to be holy; without holiness no one will see the Lord.
NAS© Pursue peace with all men, and the sanctification without which no one will see the Lord.
ISV© Pursue peace with everyone, as well as holiness, without which no one will see the Lord.
GWT© Try to live peacefully with everyone, and try to live holy lives, because if you don't, you will not see the Lord.
KJV Follow peace with all men, and holiness, without which no man shall see the Lord:
AKJ Follow peace with all men, and holiness, without which no man shall see the Lord:
ASV Follow after peace with all men, and the sanctification without which no man shall see the Lord:
BBE Let your desire be for peace with all men, and to be made holy, without which no man may see the Lord;
DRB Follow peace with all men, and holiness: without which no man shall see God.
DBY Pursue peace with all, and holiness, without which no one shall see the Lord:
ERV Follow after peace with all men, and the sanctification without which no man shall see the Lord:
WBS Follow peace with all men, and holiness, without which no man shall see the Lord:
WEY but may rather be restored. Persistently strive for peace with all men, and for that growth in holiness apart from which no one will see the Lord.
WEB Follow after peace with all men, and the sanctification without which no man will see the Lord,
YLT peace pursue with all, and the separation, apart from which no one shall see the Lord,
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WOW! Did the first part of that verse sure leap out at me... after hearing the quoted "holiness without which no man shall see the Lord" part for most of my life. The complete verse is.... FOLLOW PEACE WITH ALL MEN, and HOLINESS.... now does that not put it in context??
Sure sounds like we do the opposite, when we fight for our version of holiness standards and leave the "peace with all men" part out!!
I mean think about it, if we are condemning our brother, neighboring pastor, church, etc because their holiness doesn't line up to our conviction... how in the world are we also following peace with all men. What if the verse means you need "peace with all men and holiness" together... two things.... or you won't see the LORD!!!
<I think I will leave now feeling convicted>
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10-02-2009, 03:36 PM
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My Family!
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Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Collierville, TN
Posts: 31,786
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Re: How to destroy holiness- A primer
Quote:
Originally Posted by CAD/JPY
WOW! Did the first part of that verse sure leap out at me... after hearing the quoted "holiness without which no man shall see the Lord" part for most of my life. The complete verse is.... FOLLOW PEACE WITH ALL MEN, and HOLINESS.... now does that not put it in context??
Sure sounds like we do the opposite, when we fight for our version of holiness standards and leave the "peace with all men" part out!!
I mean think about it, if we are condemning our brother, neighboring pastor, church, etc because their holiness doesn't line up to our conviction... how in the world are we also following peace with all men. What if the verse means you need "peace with all men and holiness" together... two things.... or you won't see the LORD!!!
<I think I will leave now feeling convicted>
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Exactly!
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10-02-2009, 03:37 PM
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Scripture > Tradition
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Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: South Florida
Posts: 1,758
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Re: How to destroy holiness- A primer
Its funny how the ultra-ultra-cons are already alluding to and building up the groundwork for DB as a comprimiser if he doesn't come out hard enough for them off the bat for being open to dialogue with others considering he...
A: Literally wrote the book(s) they use for advanced systematic theology
B: Is conservative in belief but was fairly moderate in operation as a District Superintendent in South Texas. Even I can't fault DB for how he ran the district, my uncle in S. Texas who pastors can't speak highly enough of him and how responsive he is to the pastors in that district, a real peace maker in real life no matter how his books come across depending on the person reading them.
__________________
Name-calling is the last resort of an exhausted mind.
When people have the facts, they argue the facts.
When they don't have the facts, they call names.
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10-02-2009, 03:39 PM
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Registered Member
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Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: AZ
Posts: 16,746
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Re: How to destroy holiness- A primer
Quote:
Originally Posted by CAD/JPY
WOW! Did the first part of that verse sure leap out at me... after hearing the quoted "holiness without which no man shall see the Lord" part for most of my life. The complete verse is.... FOLLOW PEACE WITH ALL MEN, and HOLINESS.... now does that not put it in context??
Sure sounds like we do the opposite, when we fight for our version of holiness standards and leave the "peace with all men" part out!!
I mean think about it, if we are condemning our brother, neighboring pastor, church, etc because their holiness doesn't line up to our conviction... how in the world are we also following peace with all men. What if the verse means you need "peace with all men and holiness" together... two things.... or you won't see the LORD!!!
<I think I will leave now feeling convicted>
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You noticed that too huh? LOL
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10-02-2009, 04:58 PM
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Registered Member
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Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: TEXAS
Posts: 996
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Re: How to destroy holiness- A primer
Quote:
Originally Posted by CAD/JPY
WOW! Did the first part of that verse sure leap out at me... after hearing the quoted "holiness without which no man shall see the Lord" part for most of my life. The complete verse is.... FOLLOW PEACE WITH ALL MEN, and HOLINESS.... now does that not put it in context??
Sure sounds like we do the opposite, when we fight for our version of holiness standards and leave the "peace with all men" part out!!
I mean think about it, if we are condemning our brother, neighboring pastor, church, etc because their holiness doesn't line up to our conviction... how in the world are we also following peace with all men. What if the verse means you need "peace with all men and holiness" together... two things.... or you won't see the LORD!!!
<I think I will leave now feeling convicted>
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Whom is condemning, btw? I don't see that anywhere., I think those who seem to SEE that also
see demons under every rock - paranoia deluxe!! 
I also don't read in that verse being used in several prev. postings,
Quote:
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“holiness without which no man shall see the Lord”,
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where holiness is defined at all!
__________________
You can tell more about people
by what they say about others...than by what others
say about them.
Last edited by simplyme; 10-02-2009 at 05:07 PM.
Reason: gram correction
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10-02-2009, 05:26 PM
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Resident PeaceMaker
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Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Jackson,AL.
Posts: 16,548
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Re: How to destroy holiness- A primer
We certainly need Holiness and it is essential for effective discipleship for believers,but I believe one work of the Holy Ghost,is for sanctification,as we pray and read the word,fast,pray in The Holy Ghost spend quality time with The Lord Holiness will develope because a quality relationship with The Lord will produce Holiness,Holiness goes from the innerward out not from the outerward in.
Also if we understand we are truly saved by grace,then if we listen to our teacher grace it teaches us to deny ungodliness and wordly lusts,true grace produces Christian character,and a responsible manner of living.
When we realize we are ambassadors for Christ,we will live in a manner as to represent the Kingdom of God.
__________________
People who are always looking for fault,can find it easily all they have to do,is look into their mirror.
There they can find plenty of fault.
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10-02-2009, 05:32 PM
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Honorary Admin
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Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Sandusky, Ohio
Posts: 6,287
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Re: How to destroy holiness- A primer
IMHO, there is nothing worse than unholy behavior in support of a perceived holy cause. That is what bothers me more than anything in all of this and did during my 20yrs in the UPCI. I saw it over and over and over. Good men desecrated by men who thought they were better because they thought they were more holy. This gets justified. A man in a "holy" war is incapable of being defeated! 
__________________
"Those who go after the "Sauls" among us often slay the Davids among us." Gene Edwards
Executive Servant http://www.newlife-church.org
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10-02-2009, 05:47 PM
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Resident PeaceMaker
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Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Jackson,AL.
Posts: 16,548
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Re: How to destroy holiness- A primer
We are not called to out holy each other,we are called to be conformed to the image of Christ,if we compare ourselves to ourselves we are not wise.
__________________
People who are always looking for fault,can find it easily all they have to do,is look into their mirror.
There they can find plenty of fault.
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10-02-2009, 05:54 PM
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Registered Member
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Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 10,740
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Re: How to destroy holiness- A primer
Quote:
Originally Posted by El Predicador
A Lesson in Self-Defeat
If someone wanted to set back our holiness tradition for the next generation I would suggest the following course of action:
1.Begin a series of articles and sermons targeting those weak on holiness and new birth.
2.Right before the denominational conference start an internet site, something along the lines of We Proclaim.
3.As part of the "proclamations" be sure that culottes and dealing with split ends gets equal billing with the new birth.
4.Perhaps most important of all, in one fell swoop just announce that heaven or hell issues such as TV, movies, wedding bands etc. are no longer heaven or hell issues( like have been preached for generations) and should be left up to the local pastor to teach as he sees fit.
5.Maneuver behind the scenes so the pastor of the man most vocal about dialoguing with those whom you insist must be expelled from the organization gets elected General Superintendent.
6.Going around thumping chests as though a great victory had been accomplished when in fact through these actions the cause of traditional standards have been set back farther than the targets in number 1 ever could have accomplished.
Thank God no one is actually foolish enough to do this right?
|
Do you think Bernard's election was a God-thing?
__________________
His banner over me is LOVE....  My soul followeth hard after thee....Love one another with a pure heart fervently. Jesus saith unto her, Said I not unto thee, that, if thou wouldest believe, thou shouldest see the glory of God?
To be a servant of God, it will cost us our total commitment to God, and God alone. His burden must be our burden... Sis Alvear
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