The Ugly Truth About Canada's HealthCare

[Maple Leaf]

Originally Posted by oletime

you can as long as your the right age ,not too old or they just wont bother to spend the money on you .or if your willing to wait ,hopefully you dont die first, or as in the case of my friend, who had to go to quebec to get by pass surgery from nb.that aint health care heaven inmo.this is what you pay 48 percent of your income in taxes for ?
what a joke ! ps most of my family lives there, and i was born there, so i also know.of course they dont want to give up anything thats free even if its pitiful. you can keep it anything the govt does doesnt work well like cash for clunkers anyone ?

If this post is indicative of the level of conversation about healthcare in America, I can't imagine that you'll ever find a good solution.

I have been with countless seniors in need of healthcare and have never seen one refused treatment because of age, not one, except in the cases where their age or health did not make them a candidate for surgery.

The anecdote about by-pass surgery in Quebec is laughable. NB is a province with a lot of geography and a small population, but we do have a really good cardiac center, located in Saint John, NB, in the south of the province. Your friend lives in the northern part of the province in a very sparsely populated rural area, which is only marginally farther from Quebec City than from Saint John.

Again, I have visited with many people who have required and received by-pass surgery, and not one of them suffered from a delay in treatment, except the delays that are the natural result of living far removed from population centers.

Even the cited tax rate of 48% is a smokescreen. Canada is a country with a very large chunk of real estate and a small population to pay for maintaining infrastructure and government programs.

[Maple Leaf]

Originally Posted by simplyme

Yes I'm sure the system works well enough for those not needing URGENT care, where
time is not an issue.

Perhaps your experience of Canadian healthcare has been much different than mine, but I have never had the experience of someone requiring urgent care and not receiving it.

I have complete confidence that, if because of accident or illness, I required medical treatment today, I would receive the treatment I required.

[deacon blues]

Originally Posted by MikeinAR

I'll give them credit. The right has captured the debate with their misinformation and scaretactics and it's the Presidents job to reset the debate next week and be more specific on what he wants in the plan and then get it done with or without Republicans.

What about substance of the article Mike? Is that "misinformation and scare tactics"? Why not address the notion that these state-run systems are having to allow some forms of privatization?

[Barb]

Originally Posted by oletime

you can as long as your the right age ,not too old or they just wont bother to spend the money on you .or if your willing to wait ,hopefully you dont die first, or as in the case of my friend, who had to go to quebec to get by pass surgery from nb.that aint health care heaven inmo.this is what you pay 48 percent of your income in taxes for ?
what a joke ! ps most of my family lives there, and i was born there, so i also know.of course they dont want to give up anything thats free even if its pitiful. you can keep it anything the govt does doesnt work well like cash for clunkers anyone ?

I have an elderly friend who lives in a province on the Atlantic coast...she said that she does NOT have a problem with their healthcare plan. She's never had to wait to see a doctor or to have surgery.

[Maple Leaf]

Back to the taxation smoke screen.

According to "World Health Statistics 2008: Global Health Indicators. World Health Organization," Health care spending in Canada is projected to reach $160 billion, or 10.6% of GDP, in 2007. This is slightly above the average for OECD countries, and substantially below the 15.2% of GDP taken up by healthcare in the United States as of 2005.

In 2007, U.S. health care spending was about $7,421 per resident. The approximate cost for healthcare in Canada in 2007 was $4812 per resident.

The easily deduced result is that, whether through taxation, premiums, or out-of-pocket expenses, American tax payers spend a larger portion of their pay cheques on healthcare than their Canadian neighbours.

[Maple Leaf]

Originally Posted by oletime

ps most of my family lives there, and i was born there, so i also know.of course they dont want to give up anything thats free even if its pitiful. you can keep it anything the govt does doesnt work well like cash for clunkers anyone ?

Oletime may be right that our healthcare is pitiful. It's hard to argue with his criticism when the World Health Organization has rated us at 30th in the world. The only thing that would be worse is if we had spent an extra 5% of our GDP on healthcare and been rated 37th like our neighbours to the south.

[Maple Leaf]

Originally Posted by Barb

I have an elderly friend who lives in a province on the Atlantic coast...she said that she does NOT have a problem with their healthcare plan. She's never had to wait to see a doctor or to have surgery.

That can't be true.

Haven't you heard that we put our seniors on the ice floe to avoid providing them with medical care?

[Maple Leaf]

I've got this taxation for healthcare stuck in my craw.

The median household income for Tennessee for 2005-2007 was $41,632 (Kaiser Foundation).

What would the average family of four, living on the median income expect to pay for healthcare (Premiums, deductibles, etc.)?


For clarity, here are the income tax rates for Canada (Note that these are for taxable income and not gross income):

Federal Tax Rates

•15% on the first $40,726 of taxable income, +
•22% on the next $40,726 of taxable income (on the portion of taxable income between $40,726 and $81,452), +
•26% on the next $44,812 of taxable income (on the portion of taxable income between $81,452 and $126,264), +
•29% of taxable income over $126,264.

Provincial Tax Rates (Ontario)

6.05% on the first $36,848 of taxable income, +
9.15% on the next $36,850, +
11.16% on the amount over $73,698

From the earlier example, a family of four with a household income of $41,632 would have an income tax assessment of approx. 22% of taxable income before deductions (Family considerations, Eligible medical expenses, Charitable giving, Tuition and student expenses, etc)

In the case of oletime preacher: If he's in charge of a congregation and pays his tithes and gives offerings, his total income tax, both federal and provincial, would be a little less than 12%, aside from whatever other deductions his family might have. Oletime preacher would pay less income tax in Canada than what he expects his people to give in tithes and offerings, and have his healthcare covered to boot.

[Barb]

Originally Posted by Maple Leaf

That can't be true.

Haven't you heard that we put our seniors on the ice floe to avoid providing them with medical care?

Yes, I did hear that about y'all, now that you mention it...heartless bunch of NBers...

Seriously, I was talking about this healthcare issue with my brother at Cracker Barrel this morning...I think the U.S. is so fearful of anything that might involve government involvement that they are not looking at the millions of United States citizens who cannot afford healthcare.

In my humble opinion, the word we fear is socialism...

[Esther]

Originally Posted by Barb

Yes, I did hear that about y'all, now that you mention it...heartless bunch of NBers...

Seriously, I was talking about this healthcare issue with my brother at Cracker Barrel this morning...I think the U.S. is so fearful of anything that might involve government involvement that they are not looking at the millions of United States citizens who cannot afford healthcare.

In my humble opinion, the word we fear is socialism...

Why would anyone want a government that stole from the social security program and has now about bankrupted that system touch something as important as health care?

Yes our health care needs some revamping but NOT government run.

Why is meds made here in the US cost the US citizens much more than the same meds in Canada or Mexico?

Seems to me the Pharmacutical are in the pockets of the government.