Doctrinal Conference 2009 (Atlanta West)

[Jermyn Davidson]

Doesn't Paul teach us about dividing the body over various doctrines like, oh, "the doctrines of baptisms" along with the other things he mentioned?


I'm just sayin as much as I am wholeheartedly for Jesus Name baptism, and will never consider personally baptizing someone any other way and will never consider allowing my children to be baptized any other way (solely), I don't think that Christians who are baptized F,S, and HG are lost simply because of their baptism.


Is there any church that does everything exactly like the first church did?

So what we do that's different is acceptable because we do it and we have the Holy Ghost that bears witness that our different way of doing things is acceptable.

[vrblackwell]

That will be an interesting Q&A. From what I understand, Bro. Bernard and Bro. Seagraves have different views on salvational doctrine. I believe they have debated the issue before.

[PraiseHymn]

Please read your Word with the understanding that the Holy Ghost has given you. Hebrews 6:2 has nothing to do with NOT telling someone about the doctrine of baptism however it has EVERYTHING to do with Christians who are already IN the TRUTH to begin to move/progress forward in their quest towards holiness. Start out by reading verse 1 of Hebrews 6 and I'll quote "Therefore leaving the discussion of the elementary principles of Christ" If one does not have the basic foundation (elementary principles) one cannot possibly move on to progessive holiness if there is NO FOUNDATION. The sole purpose of any doctrinal conference is to lay the foundation of what we as Apostolics believe. Since there will be numerous denominations in attendance, we cannot possibly skip over the foundation and go straight into building a house. It will fall. With that said, I firmly believe and stand in agreement that if one is Holy Ghost filled but is NOT baptised in Jesus Name, they need to be told the truth (hence the reason why we as a church have decided to invite other people outside of our organization/denomination).

Now, if 100% of people in attendance already have the basic fundementals of The Truth (i.e. repentance, baptism in Jesus Name, infilling of the Holy Ghost) then Hebrews Chapter 6 would be a great chapter to quote since the basic concept of this chapter is that since the foundation has already been laid, its time to move on in your walk with Christ. I agree 100% with Paul when he clearly says we cannot "lay again the foundation" but that we need to "progress.....move forward" in our Christian walk. That being said, since there is only ONE Lord, ONE Faith and ONE baptism, one would at least need to attempt to do things the bible way instead of just saying "Is there any church that does everything exactly like the first church did?"

I'll leave these final words with you, no TRUTH equals no freedom. 100% Truth equals 100% freedom. And that freedom I speak of is the freedom from all erroneous doctrine. Until Jesus comes, there will always be people who need MILK preached to them as well as people like you and I who need MEAT preached to them. If only meat is served, we all need to toss out our new converts classes but since milk and meat needs to be preached, we as an Apostolic body need to find an equilibrium in our preaching methods, hence the reason why a "doctrine" conference is always going to be in order.

[Steve Epley]

There are NO Christians who have NOT been baptized in Jesus Name just for the record.

[misspresley]

Originally Posted by Steve Epley

There are NO Christians who have NOT been baptized in Jesus Name just for the record.

When someone is doing all they know to do, God honors that. I believe when He leads them into the truth, they're held responsible. Only God knows the true heart of a person - and yes, I've been baptized in Jesus' sweet name. Blessings to you.

[Steve Epley]

Originally Posted by misspresley

When someone is doing all they know to do, God honors that. I believe when He leads them into the truth, they're held responsible. Only God knows the true heart of a person - and yes, I've been baptized in Jesus' sweet name. Blessings to you.

God wrote the Book and inspired the men in that Book to preach what they preached. For the heart to be right it must be right with the Book not some warm feeling.
NO ONE is saved outside of obeying Acts 2:38 unless God is a liar.

[deltaguitar]

While it might seem like a good idea to invite other churches to "witness" to them be very cautious in opening up something that has been dormant for many years. You will find that these ministers from other denominations are usually more educated and have a better understanding of church history and doctrine than their UPC counterparts. They might end up changing you more than you change them. Remember, they basically pay no attention to the Oneness movement because their influence has been minimal. The Apostolics just can't compete in the arena of ideas. Most of the large UPC churches that I know of are very sneaky about what they actually believe and a person could possibly attend church there quite a while before they ever hear anything about three-step doctrine or any of the other doctrines that are central to the UPC.

I have predicted that we will see a major battle over doctrinal beliefs concerning salvation within the UPC in the next few years. A possible way for this to happen will be if the UPC starts teaching their true doctrine without trying to fool people as to what they really believe.

Additionally, Dr. Seagraves, though I have never met him I credit him in part for my leaving the Pentecostal/Apostolic movement. My sister was a student at CLC and sent me the audio for his Romans and Galatians class way back in 2001. Growing up my whole life in the UPC I had never heard what Dr. Seagraves was teaching and through that God started changing my heart and preparing me to leave the UPC though it would be six years later. According to people that I know who have gone to CLC, an overwhelming majority of the students that graduate from there usually either leave the three-step doctrine or leave the Apostolic movement all together.

[crakjak]

Originally Posted by deltaguitar

While it might seem like a good idea to invite other churches to "witness" to them be very cautious in opening up something that has been dormant for many years. You will find that these ministers from other denominations are usually more educated and have a better understanding of church history and doctrine than their UPC counterparts. They might end up changing you more than you change them. Remember, they basically pay no attention to the Oneness movement because their influence has been minimal. The Apostolics just can't compete in the arena of ideas. Most of the large UPC churches that I know of are very sneaky about what they actually believe and a person could possibly attend church there quite a while before they ever hear anything about three-step doctrine or any of the other doctrines that are central to the UPC.

I have predicted that we will see a major battle over doctrinal beliefs concerning salvation within the UPC in the next few years. A possible way for this to happen will be if the UPC starts teaching their true doctrine without trying to fool people as to what they really believe.

Additionally, Dr. Seagraves, though I have never met him I credit him in part for my leaving the Pentecostal/Apostolic movement. My sister was a student at CLC and sent me the audio for his Romans and Galatians class way back in 2001. Growing up my whole life in the UPC I had never heard what Dr. Seagraves was teaching and through that God started changing my heart and preparing me to leave the UPC though it would be six years later. According to people that I know who have gone to CLC, an overwhelming majority of the students that graduate from there usually either leave the three-step doctrine or leave the Apostolic movement all together.

When people start studying without the lens of "to prove what I already believe to be the total truth'' it is dangerous to tradition. There is a whole world of knowledge outside of the UPC that most within have no idea that exists, Dr. Seagraves is simply opening that door. It is scary outside the boundaries that we thought kept us safe, but it is very fulfilling to know that God is bigger and greater than the small walls in which we had been confined.

We should all pray "...to know Him as He really is!" Knowing that if we were to ever reach that goal completely in this life we would simply explode, like the mosquito that bit the guy that had been eating the hot sauce. lol

[ThePastorsCoach]

Originally Posted by crakjak

When people start studying without the lens of "to prove what I already believe to be the total truth'' it is dangerous to tradition. There is a whole world of knowledge outside of the UPC that most within have no idea that exists, Dr. Seagraves is simply opening that door. It is scary outside the boundaries that we thought kept us safe, but it is very fulfilling to know that God is bigger and greater than the small walls in which we had been confined.

We should all pray "...to know Him as He really is!" Knowing that if we were to ever reach that goal completely in this life we would simply explode, like the mosquito that bit the guy that had been eating the hot sauce. lol

I LIKE ALL THIS! SO TRUE! When people get tired of the double standards, hypocrisy, the "don't do as I do - just do as I say" attitude and start studying the Word for themselves and seeking God for fresh Revelation and loving people - their eyes will be opened too that there is a BIG NEW world out there they never dreamed of!

[mizpeh]

Originally Posted by deltaguitar

While it might seem like a good idea to invite other churches to "witness" to them be very cautious in opening up something that has been dormant for many years. You will find that these ministers from other denominations are usually more educated and have a better understanding of church history and doctrine than their UPC counterparts. They might end up changing you more than you change them. Remember, they basically pay no attention to the Oneness movement because their influence has been minimal. The Apostolics just can't compete in the arena of ideas. Most of the large UPC churches that I know of are very sneaky about what they actually believe and a person could possibly attend church there quite a while before they ever hear anything about three-step doctrine or any of the other doctrines that are central to the UPC.

I have predicted that we will see a major battle over doctrinal beliefs concerning salvation within the UPC in the next few years. A possible way for this to happen will be if the UPC starts teaching their true doctrine without trying to fool people as to what they really believe.

Additionally, Dr. Seagraves, though I have never met him I credit him in part for my leaving the Pentecostal/Apostolic movement. My sister was a student at CLC and sent me the audio for his Romans and Galatians class way back in 2001. Growing up my whole life in the UPC I had never heard what Dr. Seagraves was teaching and through that God started changing my heart and preparing me to leave the UPC though it would be six years later. According to people that I know who have gone to CLC, an overwhelming majority of the students that graduate from there usually either leave the three-step doctrine or leave the Apostolic movement all together.

I don't think Dr Segraves or Bernard will have a problem articulating what they believe if asked by educated ministers from other churches.