What did the oneness pentecostal pioneers believe? - Page 2

THX4GRACE · #11 05-01-2009, 03:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by deltaguitar

Yeah, and if you want more info trace the founders of the Oneness movement back and the religions that they were a part of and you will find some very interesting ideas.

youtube has some great debates with the Church of Christ, United Pentecostals, and a lecture by a Dr. Morey concerning the beliefs and history of the "cults". If you really want to see something interesting go watch the UPC vs. Christianity debates. After that debate the man who represented the UPC, Robert Sabin, the head of ABI, changed his beliefs.

I saw those debates many years ago...if you mean the ones with Sabin, Urshan and John Ankerberg....pretty interesting...

deltaguitar · #12 05-01-2009, 04:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by THX4GRACE

Well I was raised in UPC....so it was facinating for me to see that there are other Apostolics that actually believe that salvation comes at repentance. Guess I'm a one stepper and didn't even know it. Our home church preached the 3 step method, but I just don't see how that can be.....if it is, then it seems to negate the act of "grace" Just my opinion, but sorry, I just can't get away from the awesomeness of the GRACE of GOD.....such an unbelievable gift!

Well, according to many on here one-steppers teach greasy or cheap grace. I was raised UPC as well and I started reading the bible and that is when the fun started. I was deeply in love with my church and the UPC. I read Christianity Without the Cross and it gave me hope that I could stay UPC and be a one-stepper but I soon realized that when your foundation is wrong then there will be tons of other problems. God got me out and that is the only way I can explain it.

mizpeh · #13 05-01-2009, 06:27 PM

God's grace is amazing considering our rebellion but grace is not the be all and end all when it comes to salvation. It is the beginning.

Maybe since I am a first generation Oneness Pentecostal, appealing to the early Pentecostal pioneers of this past century does nothing for me except to rejoice in God's word being preached as it was in the early church. I prefer to go all the way back to the when the NT was written to find authority for my faith and practice. If the Pentecostal pioneers agree with the Bible, all the better.

Fudge's book is a history book, nothing more.You can find many references to his book on this site by using the search feature.

THX4GRACE · #14 05-04-2009, 11:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mizpeh

God's grace is amazing considering our rebellion but grace is not the be all and end all when it comes to salvation. It is the beginning.

Maybe since I am a first generation Oneness Pentecostal, appealing to the early Pentecostal pioneers of this past century does nothing for me except to rejoice in God's word being preached as it was in the early church. I prefer to go all the way back to the when the NT was written to find authority for my faith and practice. If the Pentecostal pioneers agree with the Bible, all the better.

Fudge's book is a history book, nothing more.You can find many references to his book on this site by using the search feature.

I'm finding it more and more difficult to believe that "more than grace" is required for salvation. If it is,........... then the various passages in Ephesians 2:5 and Ephesians 2: 8, 9 and 10, , Titus 2:11, Galatians 2: 16 - 21 and many others are all made ineffective and they have no real meaning.

If we believe that certain works..........steps.......or rituals of the law are required in order to earn our salvation, then in truth it sure appears that we are frustrating the grace of God; "for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain." Galatians 2:21

deltaguitar · #15 05-04-2009, 11:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by THX4GRACE

I'm finding it more and more difficult to believe that "more than grace" is required for salvation. If it is,........... then the various passages in Ephesians 2:5 and Ephesians 2: 8, 9 and 10, , Titus 2:11, Galatians 2: 16 - 21 and many others are all made ineffective and they have no real meaning.

If we believe that certain works..........steps.......or rituals of the law are required in order to earn our salvation, then in truth it sure appears that we are frustrating the grace of God; "for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain." Galatians 2:21

Good post. Amazing what a little bible reading does.

Firewind · #16 05-04-2009, 07:04 PM

Another influential Pentecostal pioneer, who Thomas Fudge repeatedly identified with the saved-at-repentance position, was John Dearing.

However, Fudge inexplicably failed to mention that Dearing's understanding changed later in his ministry, and he thereafter openly taught the view equating Acts 2:38 with the new birth.

THX4GRACE · #17 05-05-2009, 06:30 AM

I can't dispute that Dearing changed his understanding or position, but the point is that many of our founding fathers and mothers for that matter.....belived that salvation comes at repentance. Is it possible that it can be both ways? Can we say that those that believe in salvation at repentance are not saved? If so, we would be relegating many of our pentecostal forefathers to a devil's hell. And you know we can't do that, so it comes down to the fact that salvation comes by grace through faith, otherwise it's by works and we know that just can't be.

Sister Alvear · #18 05-05-2009, 06:53 AM

Strange Peter did not say just grace will save you in Acts 2...well. maybe he did not know that....
love you folks...I can disagree and still love you all!

Timmy · #19 05-05-2009, 08:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sister Alvear

Strange Peter did not say just grace will save you in Acts 2...well. maybe he did not know that....
love you folks...I can disagree and still love you all!

Well, Peter and Paul didn't see eye to eye on everything, did they?

missourimary · #20 05-11-2009, 05:43 PM

There were several issues that early Pentecostal pioneers disagreed on dramatically. They unified because of their beliefs in the Oneness of God, baptism in Jesus' name (essential or not), and the infilling of the Holy Ghost, not because they agreed on all the nuances of doctrinal discussion that arose.

I had no idea what one-steppers and three-steppers were... laughably I guess I'm in a many-stepper group then, because I hear it taught that you aren't saved til those pearly gates close behind you.