Praying People Through - Page 2

freeatlast · #11 03-09-2009, 08:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mizpeh

What about all the times the apostles had to lay hands of believers?

Anytime they did this, ALL recieved the spirit....nobody got told they almost got it,

staysharp · #12 03-09-2009, 08:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mizpeh

What about all the times the apostles had to lay hands of believers?

Please give me an example of what you are saying. R u saying the Apostles had power to give them the Holy Spirit?

The book of Acts is a 35 year history and in that time, only three examples of people receiving the Holy Spirit as they did at Pentecost are exampled. Peter heard Cornelious speak in the same languages they spoke. They spoke in earthly foreign languages, not blithering babble....

Acts 10:44 While Peter was still speaking these words, the Holy Spirit came on all who heard the message. 45The circumcised believers who had come with Peter were astonished that the gift of the Holy Spirit had been poured out even on the Gentiles. 46For they heard them speaking in tongues[b] and praising God.

staysharp · #13 03-09-2009, 08:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by freeatlast

Anytime they did this, ALL recieved the spirit....nobody got told they almost got it,

And they didn't have to repent enough to "get it" and the didn't have to "relax" and stop being so "uptight". Is blah blah and la la, the real Holy Spirit?

TRFrance · #14 03-09-2009, 08:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by staysharp

You may want to actually read what I wrote before you accuse me of falsely interpreting the bible...here is my final sentence..."
If his gifts are irrevocable, how can one ever repent enough to merit receiving?

Now instead of attacking me, why don't you answer the question?

Calm yourself down a bit. Nobody's attacking you, bro.
You did appear to be incorrectly interpreting the verse. No one accused you of falsely interpreting it. Big difference.

(Your post isn't very clear, in some spots, in case you had't noticed. Better clarity helps prevent people from misunderstand what you're trying to say. )

I did go back and see what you said, and so I also modified my post a bit.
And yes I did see that last sentence. But what got my attention also was this part:

"How much repenting would one need to do to speak in tongues and get it all out? And is repentance a requisite to receiving the gifts?"

... which, as I said, seems to question whether repentence is requred on the part of the person receiving the gifts. I'll ask you then. Why wouldnt it be?

Another thing that's not clear, feel free to clear this part up... are you referrintg to the gift of the Holy Ghost, or the gift of tongues? (It's not clear if you consider them to be two different things. )

staysharp · #15 03-09-2009, 08:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mizpeh

We do know that the Samaritans in Acts 8 didn't receive the Spirit as easily as the Gentiles in Acts 10. Can we assume that they did seek to receive the baptism of the Holy Spirit?

Other than laying on of the hands of the apostles there is very much in the Bible to tell us "HOW" believers were prayed through who didn't receive the Spirit immediately upon hearing the word as in Acts 10.

Where do you get the notion they didn't receive it as easily as Acts 10?

Acts 8
17Then Peter and John placed their hands on them, and they received the Holy Spirit.

And how did they place their hands on them? It never says they put their hands on their foreheads and shook em until they spoke in tongues and prayed them through.

staysharp · #16 03-09-2009, 08:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TRFrance

Calm yourself down a bit. Nobody's attacking you, bro.
You did appear to be incorrectly interpreting the verse. No one accused you of falsely interpreting it. Big difference.

(Your post isn't very clear, in some spots, in case you had't noticed. Better clarity helps prevent people from misunderstand what you're trying to say. )

I did go back and see what you said, and so I also modified my post a bit.
And yes I did see that last sentence. But what got my attention also was this part:

"How much repenting would one need to do to speak in tongues and get it all out? And is repentance a requisite to receiving the gifts?"

... which, as I said, seems to question whether repentence is requred on the part of the person receiving the gifts. I'll ask you then. Why wouldnt it be?

Another thing that's not clear, feel free to clear this part up... are you referrintg to the gift of the Holy Ghost, or the gift of tongues? (It's not clear if you consider them to be two different things. )

Well, IMO (which is another debate entirely) there isn't but one gift. The gift of tongues according to I Cor 12. What the Apostles received in Acts 2 was the ability to communicate in another language to those who were standing by so they could hear the marvelous works of God in their native tongue. We simply do not have any other examples of a separate work.

I believe in receiving the Holy Spirit, but not as typical modern Pentecostalism proposes. The Holy Spirit is given to those who ask. If any man thirsts, let him drink...freely. Jesus is free.

I believe in turning from sin towards Christ, but one simply cannot make the case that God is a respecter of persons and one need labor for a gift. A gift is a gift. It's what he does for us, independent of who we are.

TRFrance · #17 03-09-2009, 08:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by staysharp

The book of Acts is a 35 year history and in that time, only three examples of people receiving the Holy Spirit as they did at Pentecost are exampled. Peter heard Cornelious speak in the same languages they spoke. They spoke in earthly foreign languages, not blithering babble....

Please show us how you conclude that in the Acts 10, and Acts 19 when they spoke in tongues, they were speaking earthly languages.

Quote:

Originally Posted by staysharp

And they didn't have to repent enough to "get it" and the didn't have to "relax" and stop being so "uptight". Is blah blah and la la, the real Holy Spirit?

So your point is what exactly?
...That the tongues that people speak in when they receive the Holy Ghost in Pentecostal churches today is not the "real Holy Spirit"?

staysharp · #18 03-09-2009, 08:52 PM

Quote:

So your point is what exactly?
...That the tongues that people speak in when they receive the Holy Ghost in Pentecostal churches today is not the "real Holy Spirit"?

Not all; that would be wrong to stereotype and label all experiences as false. We know we have the Holy Spirit in us by the fruit which is produced. Love, Joy, Peace...etc.

How many people do you know that claim to receive the Holy Spirit actually have their lives transformed and produce this fruit? Some do, but many don't.

BTW, I will answer your other question in a minute. 24 is more interesting...lol

TRFrance · #19 03-09-2009, 08:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by staysharp

Well, IMO (which is another debate entirely) there isn't but one gift. The gift of tongues according to I Cor 12. What the Apostles received in Acts 2 was the ability to communicate in another language to those who were standing by so they could hear the marvelous works of God in their native tongue. We simply do not have any other examples of a separate work.

I believe in receiving the Holy Spirit, but not as typical modern Pentecostalism proposes. The Holy Spirit is given to those who ask. If any man thirsts, let him drink...freely. Jesus is free.

I believe in turning from sin towards Christ, but one simply cannot make the case that God is a respecter of persons and one need labor for a gift. A gift is a gift. It's what he does for us, independent of who we are.

You're right... it is another debate for another time.

Secondly, tongues in the New Testament is not limited to the Acts 2 example you used... that is, being:

"the ability to communicate in another language to those who were standing by so they could hear the marvelous works of God in their native tongue."

When you take a good look at what Paul says in 1 Cor 14 you'll see that.

But if you dont mind me asking... do you/have you ever received the gift of the Holy Ghost speaking with tongues? (I'm just trying to see what your personal perspective is regarding this issue.)

Scott Hutchinson · #20 03-09-2009, 08:58 PM

God would not give His power for service,to one who is not in a condition to receive it.
If person has not repented and placed faith in Christ,then such a person is not a candidate to receive The Baptism of The Holy Ghost.
They aren't getting the Holy Ghost in brothels and Honky Tonks are they ?
The verse that says the gifts are without repentance, can mean that God is not sorry about gifting believers.