And as far as lending institutions turning down those that they felt were not qualified, there was lots of pressure to grant loans to minorities who were not qualified because the government would back the loans.
Also, homes were artificially appraised higher than their value and loans were given out that were for greater amounts than what the property was really worth.
There was a lot of "politics" involved over the years that had a lot to do with the present crisis.
Obama's loan officer was fired. He was ordered to replace the original appraisal with a better one for Obama's loan. Want the details?
False appraisals are a form of deception that is used in stealing.
Re: If you lied on your mortgage application I wil
Quote:
Originally Posted by pelathais
You are correct about that picture... However there are some home owners who are "underwater" with their loans due to the unprecedented drop in values (deflation) in many parts of the country - this has endangered their mortgages, really through no fault of their own.
And there are many other different circumstances. I wouldn't say that everyone who is in trouble now is guilty of "theft" or wrong doing. Sure, there's plenty of that. But I think most folks who are hurting are just plain hurting and not "bad guys" who tried to defraud a bank.
... Drilling down a bit...
1. People who lied on their loan apps and are now going to get government help staying in their homes are stealing from those of us who are paying taxes. Period.
2. People who got homes and are now "under water" but didn’t lie are not necessarily in need of government assistance. If they can still pay their mortgage, they still have a home and regardless of the actual value of the home, it can still be lived in, appreciated, and be paid for by the home owner. This is no different than a person who is upside down on their car. If the individual is seeking government help simply because they are upside down on the home (owe more than its worth), then they are stealing from those of us who pay taxes.
3. People who were mistreated by professional loan sharks and convinced to take bad loans (interest only/ARM/Interest only ARM etc) and now they are looking for help from the government, then two things are at work. First they have some culpability for not being better educated on the matter, second, the sorry no good who sold the loan needs to go to jail, and third, It doesn’t sit well with me that those of us who worked thru hard times and sacrificed and did our due diligence are going to be asked to pay for these poor folks. I am sorry for them but I don’t know that I really agree that my tax dollars (actually the future tax bill that my kids will have to pay) should be the answer.
4. People who for what ever reason have been hurt by the economic downturn and either lost their job or lost part of their income, are in a real pickle. This one is a major conflict for me. While I generally say that there is already a process in place to deal with this (bankruptcy law), at the same time, these are the folks that I could actually see getting some kind of help from the government.
5. In general, it seems to me that the government ought to back down, and the actual banks that own these loans should see that it is in their own best interest to find a way to keep the folks in these houses.
__________________ If I do something stupid blame the Lortab!
Re: If you lied on your mortgage application I wil
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ferd
... Drilling down a bit...
1. People who lied on their loan apps and are now going to get government help staying in their homes are stealing from those of us who are paying taxes. Period.
2. People who got homes and are now "under water" but didn’t lie are not necessarily in need of government assistance. If they can still pay their mortgage, they still have a home and regardless of the actual value of the home, it can still be lived in, appreciated, and be paid for by the home owner. This is no different than a person who is upside down on their car. If the individual is seeking government help simply because they are upside down on the home (owe more than its worth), then they are stealing from those of us who pay taxes.
3. People who were mistreated by professional loan sharks and convinced to take bad loans (interest only/ARM/Interest only ARM etc) and now they are looking for help from the government, then two things are at work. First they have some culpability for not being better educated on the matter, second, the sorry no good who sold the loan needs to go to jail, and third, It doesn’t sit well with me that those of us who worked thru hard times and sacrificed and did our due diligence are going to be asked to pay for these poor folks. I am sorry for them but I don’t know that I really agree that my tax dollars (actually the future tax bill that my kids will have to pay) should be the answer.
4. People who for what ever reason have been hurt by the economic downturn and either lost their job or lost part of their income, are in a real pickle. This one is a major conflict for me. While I generally say that there is already a process in place to deal with this (bankruptcy law), at the same time, these are the folks that I could actually see getting some kind of help from the government.
5. In general, it seems to me that the government ought to back down, and the actual banks that own these loans should see that it is in their own best interest to find a way to keep the folks in these houses.
Most of the nastier subprime debt is for folks that are impossible to deal with for traditional loans. They do have fine print they go by so it is almost impossible to find a lender that committed fraud.
Re: If you lied on your mortgage application I wil
Quote:
Originally Posted by coadie
Most of the nastier subprime debt is for folks that are impossible to deal with for traditional loans. They do have fine print they go by so it is almost impossible to find a lender that committed fraud.
yea, I know. its one of those "crimes" that really isnt going to be looked at or even if it was, there is no way of really telling who did what.
Sad.
I still dont know that a tax payer bailout is the answer.
__________________ If I do something stupid blame the Lortab!
Re: If you lied on your mortgage application I wil
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ferd
yea, I know. its one of those "crimes" that really isnt going to be looked at or even if it was, there is no way of really telling who did what.
Sad.
I still dont know that a tax payer bailout is the answer.
I had the FDIC as a next door neighbor in an office building during a season of their closing many banks. I take it they are low on insurance funds for reason of closing a few more today. The spreads and margins are still ok. Citi is doing fine on fee revenue today.
Re: If you lied on your mortgage application I wil
Quote:
Originally Posted by coadie
.give you money or help.
If you lied about your income and balance sheet and bought a home you can't afford, there will be banks that are required to cut your interest or even principle. Since my mortgage was paid off 15 years ago. I will by reason of taxes help you. If you walk in the bank and lie about having a gun, you will still get 15 years for bank robbery.
If you walk in with a loan app that exagerates your income, and have a mortgage, you do still have negotiating power and can get more money by reason of theft.
something wrong with this picture?
Quote:
Originally Posted by rgcraig
Not sure I understand what you are trying to say.
A year and a half later ... this question reverberates in the halls of AFF.
Re: If you lied on your mortgage application I wil
Quote:
Originally Posted by pelathais
You are correct about that picture... However there are some home owners who are "underwater" with their loans due to the unprecedented drop in values (deflation) in many parts of the country - this has endangered their mortgages, really through no fault of their own.
And there are many other different circumstances. I wouldn't say that everyone who is in trouble now is guilty of "theft" or wrong doing. Sure, there's plenty of that. But I think most folks who are hurting are just plain hurting and not "bad guys" who tried to defraud a bank.
Yes, and there are also people who have lost their jobs and can no longer pay what they could 2-3 years ago when they filled out their loan applications. Jeff was laid off in April 2009, (a scant 16 months after we bought our first home) and it was scary for a little while. Only by the grace of God and my husband's hard work did we manage to keep ourselves afloat.
Being upside down on a loan or losing a house altogether doesn't always reflect badly on the homeowner, and judgment should be withheld until all the facts are known. (Something some people aren't good at.)
__________________
"God, send me anywhere, only go with me. Lay any burden on me, only sustain me. And sever any tie in my heart except the tie that binds my heart to Yours."
--David Livingstone
"To see no being, not God’s or any, but you also go thither,
To see no possession but you may possess it—enjoying all without labor or purchase—
abstracting the feast, yet not abstracting one particle of it;…."
--Walt Whitman, Leaves of Grass, Song of the Open Road
Re: If you lied on your mortgage application I wil
Quote:
Originally Posted by DAII
A year and a half later ... this question reverberates in the halls of AFF.
LOL!!!! How did this thread rise to the top and warrant Renda's question? I didn't notice the dates either....
__________________
"God, send me anywhere, only go with me. Lay any burden on me, only sustain me. And sever any tie in my heart except the tie that binds my heart to Yours."
--David Livingstone
"To see no being, not God’s or any, but you also go thither,
To see no possession but you may possess it—enjoying all without labor or purchase—
abstracting the feast, yet not abstracting one particle of it;…."
--Walt Whitman, Leaves of Grass, Song of the Open Road
Re: If you lied on your mortgage application I wil
Quote:
Originally Posted by coadie
.give you money or help.
If you lied about your income and balance sheet and bought a home you can't afford, there will be banks that are required to cut your interest or even principle. Since my mortgage was paid off 15 years ago. I will by reason of taxes help you. If you walk in the bank and lie about having a gun, you will still get 15 years for bank robbery.
If you walk in with a loan app that exagerates your income, and have a mortgage, you do still have negotiating power and can get more money by reason of theft.
something wrong with this picture?
Coming from the banking side, I can assure you it wasn't always "lying" going on. The banking side lenders would sometimes do all they could do to push through a loan to their underwriters.
Everyone was in on this. Banks, consumers, government... EVERYONE.
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