UPCI GB Meeting - what would you want to tell them - Page 2

StillStanding · #11 01-29-2009, 08:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pastor Keith

Pull in the leaders of the emerging Apostolic church and hear what they have to say, instead of speaking at them, how about talk with them. I think they will see a group of young men who have a heart for God, are missional in the approach and still believe that the surest way to change a heart is the Acts 2:38 experience.

It would be a mistake to pay no heed to the newer generations.

deltaguitar · #12 01-29-2009, 08:27 AM

I would ask them to please just get back to preaching the Cross and him crucified. There are tons of young people growing up in UPC churches that don't have a clue about the gospel. Acts 2:38 and standards is about all they seem to know.

TRFrance · #13 01-29-2009, 08:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mizpeh

Instead of EMERGING read RELEVANCY.

A pastor of a large UPC church finds it a big deal:

http://www.apostolicfriendsforum.com...chester+wright

Thanks for the link.

Based on Bro Wright's letter, it would seem the majority of these are of the "1-stepper" doctrinal view. If so, I cant say I'm surprised at all.

Some of the "standards" stuff, and "preaching in tee shirts and blue jeans" is less of an issue for me. But preaching a watered down salvation plan IS an issue.

I do have to wonder also how many of these new "relevancy" preachers have been to Apostolic bible colleges. I'm guessing it's a lot lower percentage than we've seen from the previous generation. I'm not saying bible college is a necessity to have sound doctrine, but I think if you have a generation of preachers that's getting less and less bible college/seminary education, you're going to have a much greater chance of seeing them departing from sound doctrine.

Anyway...
Sign of the times. It's going to happen whether I like it or not.

POWERUP · #14 01-29-2009, 08:30 AM

More Consistency!!!!! Everyone thought that when I left the UPC, it was just about standards. Not! Just no consistency. Now don't get me wrong, I have no beef with the UPC. My family is still there. If any of you have read any of my earlier post, you will know that I was heavily involved with the UPC. Licensed for 16 years, and still have some great friends who are still apart. Well, my 5 minutes is up. MORE CONSISTENCY!!!!!!!!!!

ManOfWord · #15 01-29-2009, 08:32 AM

I would have them invite the major proponents of the "magic hair" teaching and lovingly discuss the issue and give THEM an opportunity to set it straight biblically or make some disclaimers in their teaching/preaching. I would have the GB lovingly state what problems it is causing and what ministers are saying and be straight up honest about the under current. The problem is, if the GB is not united on this, it will be a mess from the inside out.

If they heed the counsel of the GB, the issue will be taken care of, but it may take some time, and everyone "wins." If not, and they take "martyr" road, then their hearts have been exposed and public action will have to be taken in the form of articles in the PH the Forward etc. If Mt. 18 isn't followed, it won't go down well. Honesty and truth are always the best roads to walk, not politics!

TRFrance · #16 01-29-2009, 08:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by POWERUP

More Consistency!!!!! Everyone thought that when I left the UPC, it was just about standards. Not! Just no consistency. Now don't get me wrong, I have no beef with the UPC. My family is still there. If any of you have read any of my earlier post, you will know that I was heavily involved with the UPC. Licensed for 16 years, and still have some great friends who are still apart. Well, my 5 minutes is up. MORE CONSISTENCY!!!!!!!!!!

Each District is given a certain level of autonomy within the organization (and rightly so).
The only way to have true "consistency" is if the org ran things with a top-down, centralized approach, and took away the autonomy of the local district. I think most of us realize that trying to do that would be a bad idea.

Pastor Keith · #17 01-29-2009, 08:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TRFrance

I agree.
An article in the Pentecostal Herald would be a good place to start.

Okay. There's that "emerging" Apostolic church stuff again.

From what I'm seeing there doesn't even seem to be a clear definition or consensus on what that IS.
Im starting to think this "emerging Apostolic church" thing might be a bigger reality on internet forums than in the real world.

Right now, as we speak, there are a large number of young men between 25-50, the pastor some of the largest churches in the UPC who would be identified or identify themselves as emerging.

Pastor Keith · #18 01-29-2009, 09:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TRFrance

Thanks for the link.

Based on Bro Wright's letter, it would seem the majority of these are of the "1-stepper" doctrinal view. If so, I cant say I'm surprised at all.

Some of the "standards" stuff, and "preaching in tee shirts and blue jeans" is less of an issue for me. But preaching a watered down salvation plan IS an issue.

I do have to wonder also how many of these new "relevancy" preachers have been to Apostolic bible colleges. I'm guessing it's a lot lower percentage than we've seen from the previous generation. I'm not saying bible college is a necessity to have sound doctrine, but I think if you have a generation of preachers that's getting less and less bible college/seminary education, you're going to have a much greater chance of seeing them departing from sound doctrine.

Anyway...
Sign of the times. It's going to happen whether I like it or not.

TR usually your not so off in your posts but both of your posts on the thread have been way off. Again there is a large # of these guys who identify themselves as Emerging, and most have been to Bible College.

Oh, and there doctrinal perspectives range anywhere from one-stepper to one must have everything or nothing perspective.

SDG · #19 01-29-2009, 09:07 AM

One of the major issues that will be focused at this GB meeting will be centered around Holiness ...

Although I wish they would direct some of those energies around HMH doctrine ....

The elders in that room will focus quixotically on "Apostolic Identity" in this board meeting ... with an emphasis on combatting a mythical dragon called Emergent Church in their ranks.

The spirit behind Chester Wright's letter, written to the Bishop, before last year's GB meeting has gained momentum ... and various sources are saying that a coordinated org-wide effort will be unleashed against churches that preach a "relevant" message ...

Churches like:

http://sflighthouse.com/ - Jeff Garner
http://www.yourjourney.tv/ - Mark Johnston
www.anchorgaslamp.com - Vince Larson
www.bethechurch.tv/ - Mark Edge

Despite the false notion that somehow churches like these don't preach the Acts 2:38 experience ... their image and approach is markedly "different" from the traditional template.

Some of these pastors have decided to stay within the fellowship ... while others like Joe Hunt, our Pastor Keith McCann, and Mark Segraves have turned in their licenses.

Also, TR's notion that these pastors may have not attended Apostolic Bible schools is also far off the mark .... Many of them have multiple degrees from Apostolic institutions ... have attended these institutions and have even taught in them.

Institutions like CLC and IBC have turned out some of the more liberal Apostolic preachers in the movement. I submit that teachers like Yadon and Segraves have encouraged free thinking, sound hermeneutics, and creativity in the work of God.

What some of these Elders do not realize is the tide is turning ... there are hybrid churches... a term I use for churches that encourage platform standards ... like RJ's in Austin ... that have entrenched themselves for more than a decade now ... while some are moving towards a more radical stance, bolder approach.

I will stress that these preacher run the gamut as far as their views on salvation ... some are 3 steppers ... some are apparent 1 steppers

Pastor Keith · #20 01-29-2009, 09:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daniel Alicea

One of the major issues that will be focused at this GB meeting will centered around Holiness ...

Although I wish they would direct some of their energies around HMH doctrine ....

The elders in that room will focus quixotically on "Apostolic Identity" in this board meeting ... with an emphasis on combatting a mythical dragon called Emergent Church in their ranks.

The spirit behind Chester Wright's letter, written to the Bishop, before last year's GB meeting has gained momentum ... and various sources are saying that a coordinated org-wide effort will be unleashed against churches that preach a "relevant" message ...

Churches like:

http://sflighthouse.com/ - Jeff Garner
http://www.yourjourney.tv/ - Mark Johnston
www.anchorgaslamp.com - Vince Larson
www.bethechurch.tv/ - Mark Edge

Despite the false notion that somehow churches like these don't preach the Acts 2:38 experience ... their image and approach markedly is "different" from the traditional template.

Some of these pastors have decided to stay within the fellowship ... while others like Joe Hunt, our Pastor Keith McCann, and Mark Segraves have turned in their licenses.

Also, TR's notion that these pastor may have not attended Apostolic Bible schools is also far off the mark .... Many of them have multiple degrees from Apostolic institutions ... have attended these institutions and have even taught in them.

Institutions like CLC and IBC have turned out some of the more liberal Apostolic preachers in the movement. I submit that teachers like Yadon and Segraves have encouraged free thinking and creativity in the work of God.

What some of these Elders do not realize is the tide is turning ... there are hybrid churches... a term I use for churches that encourage platform standards ... like RJ's in Austion ... that have entrenched themselves for more than a decade now ... while some are moving towards a more radical stance, bolder approach. I will stress that these preacher run the gamut as far as their views on salvation ... some are 3 steppers ... some are apparent 1 steppers

Good synopsis, but there are more than that, larger churches even, bigger names. Thanks for mentioning me but there are more bigger fish, that if the UPC doesn't have a Gamaliel’s Advice type of approach they will drive these guys right out of the movement.

Unlike the past departures this will kill the UPC. I promise you that!