I agree with you on almost every point. The military is not the end all be all of solving terrorism around the globe. They aren't the best means available at thwarting plots and capturing terrorists.
This is where people like DB and I disagree. He believes that it's acceptable to put suspected terrorists away for 7 years or longer and never give them JUSTICE. The United States of America should represent core values around the world if we want to show leadership and be democracy's last best hope in those regions of the world.
We MUST administer justice to these thugs, but do it in a respectable, legal manner. We must LEGALLY gather evidence and interviews and then preserve it in a way to present later in a U.S. military court or some other legal form of trial. That means good forensics and other CSI trained people on the site when these people are apprehended. This means giving them access to legal advice at least and then preceding to bring the evidence before a legal court and allowing them access to justice.
The problem with the Gitmo detainees is that the Bush administration bungled their incarcerations to the point that if they enter the federal justice system after being denied proper access to legal advice and a quick trial, they could be released. For the 40 dangerous killers at Gitmo, that's not an option.
What shouldn't be an option for the U.S. is throwing people into prison for years without a trial. Bring them to justice with some semblance of legality and then put the killers to death.
We should protect the people of our country over justice for terrorist!!!!
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If my people, which are called by my name, shall humble themselves, and pray, and seek my face, and turn from their wicked ways; then will I hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin, and will heal their land.
2 Chronicles 7:14 KJV
He hath shewed thee, O man, what is good; and what doth the LORD require of thee, but to do justly, and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with thy God? Micah 6:8 KJV
Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is. 1 John 3:2 KJV
We should protect the people of our country over justice for terrorist!!!!
I agree Cindy, but that's not a choice that has to be made if the situation is dealt with correctly from the beginning. Capture terrorists when we find them, collect evidence, give them legal counsel, bring the facts before a military judge and convict them legally. Then either legally sentence them to death or life in prison.
It's not like we have to make the choice between either bringing them to justice in a military court system or simply turning them loose. Just afford them a legal process and stop fueling the fires of hatred for America by doing it the wrong way.
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In essentials, unity. In non-essentials, liberty. In all things, charity. Augustine
I agree Cindy, but that's not a choice that has to be made if the situation is dealt with correctly from the beginning. Capture terrorists when we find them, collect evidence, give them legal counsel, bring the facts before a military judge and convict them legally. Then either legally sentence them to death or life in prison.
It's not like we have to make the choice between either bringing them to justice in a military court system or simply turning them loose. Just afford them a legal process and stop fueling the fires of hatred for America by doing it the wrong way.
I agree with you on almost every point. The military is not the end all be all of solving terrorism around the globe. They aren't the best means available at thwarting plots and capturing terrorists.
This is where people like DB and I disagree. He believes that it's acceptable to put suspected terrorists away for 7 years or longer and never give them JUSTICE. The United States of America should represent core values around the world if we want to show leadership and be democracy's last best hope in those regions of the world.
We MUST administer justice to these thugs, but do it in a respectable, legal manner. We must LEGALLY gather evidence and interviews and then preserve it in a way to present later in a U.S. military court or some other legal form of trial. That means good forensics and other CSI trained people on the site when these people are apprehended. This means giving them access to legal advice at least and then preceding to bring the evidence before a legal court and allowing them access to justice.
The problem with the Gitmo detainees is that the Bush administration bungled their incarcerations to the point that if they enter the federal justice system after being denied proper access to legal advice and a quick trial, they could be released. For the 40 dangerous killers at Gitmo, that's not an option.
What shouldn't be an option for the U.S. is throwing people into prison for years without a trial. Bring them to justice with some semblance of legality and then put the killers to death.
I fully agree. Had the Bush Administration handled this properly Obama wouldn't have to clean it up and the outcome would be far better. Sadly, if a terrorist walks and kills someone, it's the previous admonistration's mishandling of the situation that is responsible.
I agree Cindy, but that's not a choice that has to be made if the situation is dealt with correctly from the beginning. Capture terrorists when we find them, collect evidence, give them legal counsel, bring the facts before a military judge and convict them legally. Then either legally sentence them to death or life in prison.
It's not like we have to make the choice between either bringing them to justice in a military court system or simply turning them loose. Just afford them a legal process and stop fueling the fires of hatred for America by doing it the wrong way.
Those behind the 1993 WTC bombings were brought to justice just as you described.
My concern is more than Obama making Gitmo part of an exective order. He did 5 orders in 3 days which is way beyond any other president. It is a way he can make decisions without the congress having a say. If he uses this venue of making decisions more than using congress it appears that we may have more of a dictator than a president. Do any of you see this as being part of his way of running his administration? If so are you concerned over this?
My concern is more than Obama making Gitmo part of an exective order. He did 5 orders in 3 days which is way beyond any other president. It is a way he can make decisions without the congress having a say. If he uses this venue of making decisions more than using congress it appears that we may have more of a dictator than a president. Do any of you see this as being part of his way of running his administration? If so are you concerned over this?
Which orders have created rule of law?
An executive order, generally, direct the operation of his own executive officers. He is within every right to direct his executive officers.
Are there any orders which made a decisions that was within Congress' duties to make?
On the gitmo issue... the executive order is undoing something that was done outside of Congress and is not in keeping with the Constitution of the United States of America.
Day 1...
By the authority vested in me as President by the Constitution and the laws of the United States of America, and in order to establish policies and procedures governing the assertion of executive privilege by incumbent and former Presidents in connection with the release of Presidential records by the National Archives and Records Administration (NARA) pursuant to the Presidential Records Act of 1978, it is hereby ordered as follows:
This makes public records that were made hidden by Executive Order 13233 by GW Bush. Executive Order 13233 is revoked by this order. An executive order dealing with a past executive order.
The 2nd order for that day set ethics for those who would work in his administration.
Day 2
All 3 deal with gitmo. Again... an act done outside of Congress by GW Bush and not in keeping with the Constitution GW Bush swore to uphold.
When we fail to follow the most rudimentary tenets of American society then we lose some of what it means to be American.
Americans are free... Why? Because of the protection from tyranny afforded us by the safeguards in our constitution and the amendments thereto.
As Benjamin Franklin once said...
"Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a little Temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety"
That's exactly what I was driving at, but wasn't eloquent enough to make the point as well as you did. The fact that this country cheapens itself when we weaken our values and beliefs on the account of others.
One of the excerpts that really grabbed me in Obama's inaugural address was this:
"As for our common defense, we reject as false the choice between our safety and our ideals. Our founding fathers ... our found fathers, faced with perils we can scarcely imagine, drafted a charter to assure the rule of law and the rights of man, a charter expanded by the blood of generations. Those ideals still light the world, and we will not give them up for expediency's sake."
Reagan spoke of America as a "Shining City on the Hill" and if that's our legacy to the world, there must be some care values and beliefs that aren't for sale for expedience and ease.
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In essentials, unity. In non-essentials, liberty. In all things, charity. Augustine
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