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01-07-2009, 11:44 PM
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Supercalifragilisticexpiali...
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Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 19,197
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Re: Not Holy Spirit filled, Give Message in Tongue
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sam
Is it possible for someone who has not spoken with tongues to have the Spirit dwelling in them? In other words, can Jesus come into a person's heart without that person speaking with tongues?
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chseeads
No.
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Wow! this is a very strong stance.
I could not agree with this, neither was it my own experience.
__________________
"It is inhumane, in my opinion, to force people who have a genuine medical need for coffee to wait in line behind people who apparently view it as some kind of recreational activity." Dave Barry 2005
I am a firm believer in the Old Paths
Articles on such subjects as "The New Birth," will be accepted, whether they teach that the new birth takes place before baptism in water and Spirit, or that the new birth consists of baptism of water and Spirit. - THE PENTECOSTAL HERALD Dec. 1945
"It is doubtful if any Trinitarian Pentecostals have ever professed to believe in three gods, and Oneness Pentecostals should not claim that they do." - Daniel Segraves
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01-07-2009, 11:48 PM
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It's not easy being me.
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Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Bloomington, Indiana
Posts: 979
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Re: Not Holy Spirit filled, Give Message in Tongue
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stephen Hoover
Are you then saying those who have apparent gifts of healing, discernment, knowledge etc., yet do not speak in tongues, are also faking it?
Do we discount miracles if they occur in memberships of non Pentecostal churches?
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A miracle can occur wherever God pleases. That doesn't mean it's a spiritual gift.
__________________
If you sometimes get the sudden urge to run around naked, drink some Windex.
It will keep you from streaking.
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01-07-2009, 11:49 PM
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It's not easy being me.
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Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Bloomington, Indiana
Posts: 979
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Re: Not Holy Spirit filled, Give Message in Tongue
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stephen Hoover
Wow! this is a very strong stance.
I could not agree with this, neither was it my own experience.
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Some things are black and white, that is one.
__________________
If you sometimes get the sudden urge to run around naked, drink some Windex.
It will keep you from streaking.
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01-07-2009, 11:56 PM
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Supercalifragilisticexpiali...
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Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 19,197
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Re: Not Holy Spirit filled, Give Message in Tongue
Quote:
Originally Posted by chseeads
Some things are black and white, that is one.
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When Jesus came into my own heart I was never the same. I was converted, the word was illuminated to me. I loved to pray and felt the overwhelming presence of God. I was compelled to make restitution to those I had wronged and testified publicly to many of my peers at church and work.
__________________
"It is inhumane, in my opinion, to force people who have a genuine medical need for coffee to wait in line behind people who apparently view it as some kind of recreational activity." Dave Barry 2005
I am a firm believer in the Old Paths
Articles on such subjects as "The New Birth," will be accepted, whether they teach that the new birth takes place before baptism in water and Spirit, or that the new birth consists of baptism of water and Spirit. - THE PENTECOSTAL HERALD Dec. 1945
"It is doubtful if any Trinitarian Pentecostals have ever professed to believe in three gods, and Oneness Pentecostals should not claim that they do." - Daniel Segraves
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01-08-2009, 12:07 AM
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Supercalifragilisticexpiali...
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Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 19,197
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Re: Not Holy Spirit filled, Give Message in Tongue
Quote:
Originally Posted by chseeads
A miracle can occur wherever God pleases. That doesn't mean it's a spiritual gift.
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I do understand the sovereignty of God and his ability to do as he will.
The question asked is if God uses men specifically in the gifts to administer healing (laying on of hands, prayer) or in giving a message in tongues, or being a facilitator in miraculous works, if they have not received the evidence of tongues in Holy Spirit baptism.
If such a person lays hands on the sick and they are healed - is that not the gift of healing?
__________________
"It is inhumane, in my opinion, to force people who have a genuine medical need for coffee to wait in line behind people who apparently view it as some kind of recreational activity." Dave Barry 2005
I am a firm believer in the Old Paths
Articles on such subjects as "The New Birth," will be accepted, whether they teach that the new birth takes place before baptism in water and Spirit, or that the new birth consists of baptism of water and Spirit. - THE PENTECOSTAL HERALD Dec. 1945
"It is doubtful if any Trinitarian Pentecostals have ever professed to believe in three gods, and Oneness Pentecostals should not claim that they do." - Daniel Segraves
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01-08-2009, 12:19 AM
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It's not easy being me.
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Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Bloomington, Indiana
Posts: 979
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Re: Not Holy Spirit filled, Give Message in Tongue
I wouldn't personally classify it as such.
__________________
If you sometimes get the sudden urge to run around naked, drink some Windex.
It will keep you from streaking.
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01-08-2009, 12:21 AM
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Go Dodgers!
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Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 45,787
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Re: Not Holy Spirit filled, Give Message in Tongue
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stephen Hoover
We know that miracles, healings, signs and wonders can be present in the lives of Christians who have not been filled with the Holy Spirit (with speaking in tongues as evidence). Also, prophecies were given by many who did not speak in tongues.
Here are the questions.
If we assume speaking in tongues at Holy Spirit baptism is a different and separate occurrence than speaking in tongues that are subsequently interpreted, is it then possible that one may "give a message in tongues" and not have been baptized with the Holy Spirit?
Does operating in this gift necessarily imply that the speaker also received the Holy Spirit? Why when one has the gift of healing or knowledge then does it not imply the same??
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if a Person really is operating in the gifts of the Spirit then they must have THE Spirit already
__________________
Let it be understood that Apostolic Friends Forum is an Apostolic Forum.
Apostolic is defined on AFF as:
- There is One God. This one God reveals Himself distinctly as Father, Son and Holy Ghost.
- The Son is God himself in a human form or "God manifested in the flesh" (1Tim 3:16)
- Every sinner must repent of their sins.
- That Jesus name baptism is the only biblical mode of water baptism.
- That the Holy Ghost is for today and is received by faith with the initial evidence of speaking in tongues.
- The saint will go on to strive to live a holy life, pleasing to God.
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01-08-2009, 12:22 AM
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Matthew 7:6
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Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 4,768
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Re: Not Holy Spirit filled, Give Message in Tongue
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stephen Hoover
When Jesus came into my own heart I was never the same. I was converted, the word was illuminated to me. I loved to pray and felt the overwhelming presence of God. I was compelled to make restitution to those I had wronged and testified publicly to many of my peers at church and work.
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Just because the Lord is working on someone's heart doesnt mean they've received the baptism of His Spirit.
__________________
http://endtimeobserver.blogspot.com
Daniel 12:3 And those who are wise shall shine like the brightness of the firmament; and those who turn many to righteousness, like the stars for ever.
 I'm T France, and I approved this message.
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01-08-2009, 12:25 AM
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Matthew 7:6
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Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 4,768
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Re: Not Holy Spirit filled, Give Message in Tongue
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stephen Hoover
If such a person lays hands on the sick and they are healed - is that not the gift of healing?
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God responds to faith, and God can respond to any prayer to Him that's made in faith.
That doesnt mean the person who "lays hands" and prays for healing has the spiritual gift of healing.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stephen Hoover
Are you then saying those who have apparent gifts of healing, discernment, knowledge etc., yet do not speak in tongues, are also faking it?
Do we discount miracles if they occur in memberships of non Pentecostal churches?
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That's the key word there: "apparent".
Its been known that Catholic priests have been "apparently" casting out demons for centuries. And these are men who dont have the Holy Ghost.
Just because it seems they're casting out demons doesnt mean they have the Holy Spirit, or have a real relationship with God.
Things are not always what they seem.
And lets not forget Jesus' words in Matthew 7:
22Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
23And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
__________________
http://endtimeobserver.blogspot.com
Daniel 12:3 And those who are wise shall shine like the brightness of the firmament; and those who turn many to righteousness, like the stars for ever.
I'm T France, and I approved this message.
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01-08-2009, 01:37 AM
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Resident PeaceMaker
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Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Jackson,AL.
Posts: 16,548
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Re: Not Holy Spirit filled, Give Message in Tongue
This has been debated a million times over,but I don't believe one can truly and genuinely operate in the gifts of the Spirit without having received the baptism of The Holy Ghost.
Sadly many fake these gifts and it's hard to explain how sometimes people who live immoral lifestyles seemingly function in the gifts,that's why I say these sorts are not properly operating in the gifts.
People who are living immoral lifestyles and then try to function in the gifts,are not vessels of honour in the body of Christ.
__________________
People who are always looking for fault,can find it easily all they have to do,is look into their mirror.
There they can find plenty of fault.
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