Why don't some speak in tongues?

[deltaguitar]

Originally Posted by Daniel Alicea

Mow ... some have gone as far as saying that one is justified before God ... made righteous .... after repentance (Segravian view) or after baptism (Epleyian view) but still not rapture ready because they have not experienced glossolalia ...

I can't wrap my mind around the fact that the righteous will burn in hell or that the bible lied about the righteous being saved.

This is a subject that just starts to make my blood boil. I know what it is like to have people tell me over and over that you must speak in tongues to be saved. I have been told that I just need to turn it all over to God, really let him take control, just get out of the isle and run around the church and he will bless you. I suffered for years because I thought that I wasn't a RIGHT with God. If it wasn't for God's hand in my life and the consistency of the bible I probably would have left church a long time ago. I had basically given up on church even though I was a long time musician in our church.

I do think we should strive to be used in the gifts of the spirit but to make "gifts" a requirement for justification causes huge problems that we see in many Pentecostal circles.

1) People think that they have to speak in tongues to be saved. Well, until they do speak in tongues they can't be used in ministry, they don't feel secure in their salvation, and there is a constant pressure by other members to "get right" with God. There are many that I have come across that expect a visual outward demonstration or they are not satisfied that there is an experience with God. I tried to get the Holy Ghost at a young age. All my friends had it and I thought I should have had it too. But I couldn't figure out the speaking in tongues thing. Finally, I went to Mississippi district youth camp and I just told everyone I got the Holy Ghost when I came back. I had stammering lips of course and had prayed for hours begging and pleading for God to find me good enough to give me the Holy Ghost and I figured I had it though I didn't really speak in tongues. There I said it; it took me 19 years later to actually say those words. I didn't speak in tongues that night but at least I could get the monkey off my back and be accepted by the church family as "saved".

2) A culture of "spiritualism" seems to develop where some people start to think that they must act a certain way in order to be spiritual. We then end up with all the "spiritual" folks getting slain in the spirit, running the aisles, speaking in tongues and demonstrating their superior spirituality to the other saints. You then end up with preachers preaching that "we are a powerful people" and "just look at how WE worship God." This, in my opinion, is a false perception of spirituality and causes confusion as it is a worship of self and our outward demonstrations.

[deltaguitar]

Originally Posted by Daniel Alicea

MOW, do you think that maybe the pressure of the paradigm itself could make some just freeze ... The constant thinking ... If I don't do this ... I'm not saved ... but I want it to be genuine ... not forced ...

only to get caught up in that ... and just freeze ...

While the flip side to that be true ... some just want to be done with it and get in the ship ... and just maybe "help" the Spirit along?

Originally Posted by ManOfWord

Yep! I have seen it when someone tells someone to "repeat" after them as they are speaking in tongues and then tells them that they have the HG. I have seen so much, probably well meaning, wackiness in trying to get someone to speak in tongues. So much pressure placed upon sincere people who really love God and have truly repented by telling them that the last step to them being SAVED is speaking in tongues!

I called one well known UPC "prophet" to task in a pastor's office privately who did that kind of chicanery to one of the folks I pastored. I was respectful, but firm in letting him know that not everyone accepts and appreciates that kind of ministry.

Tongues is over rated and Jesus is under exalted!

There is just to much common sense in these two post.

[SDG]

Originally Posted by ManOfWord

Yep! I have seen it when someone tells someone to "repeat" after them as they are speaking in tongues and then tells them that they have the HG. I have seen so much, probably well meaning, wackiness in trying to get someone to speak in tongues. So much pressure placed upon sincere people who really love God and have truly repented by telling them that the last step to them being SAVED is speaking in tongues!

I called one well known UPC "prophet" to task in a pastor's office privately who did that kind of chicanery to one of the folks I pastored. I was respectful, but firm in letting him know that not everyone accepts and appreciates that kind of ministry.

Tongues is over rated and Jesus is under exalted!

To Bernard's credit he does state that there are no gimmicks to receiving the Spirit or that the seeker should not be instructed on how to speak in tongues ...

Yet somehow contradicts his premise of what repentance is ... and contradictorily puts the onus on the altar worker by saying somehow that in this 10 minute altar session they should be able to discern if a person has really repented, and act on this ... giving instruction on how to concentrate wholly on surrendering everything to Him ...

This is repentance? How does an altar worker discern this? Does he peek into the seeker's heart ... or just make the assumption that the Spirit flow blockage is a lack of faith and repentance then turn around and tell the seeker they need to let go a million times...

while the seeker is thinking ... Sheesh, I have already .... When is this going to happen?

[deltaguitar]

Originally Posted by Daniel Alicea

To Bernard's credit he does state that there are no gimmicks to receiving the Spirit or that the seeker should not be instructed on how to speak in tongues ...

Yet somehow contradicts his premise of what repentance is ... and contradictorily putting the onus on the altar worker by saying somehow that in this 10 minute altar session they should be able to discern if a person has really repented, discern this ... and then give instruction on how to concentrate wholly on surrendering everything to Him ...

This is repentance? How does an altar worker discern this? Does he peek into the seeker's heart ... or just make the assumption that the Spirit flow blockage is a lack of faith and repentance then turn around and tell the seeker they need to let go a million times...

while the seeker is thinking ... Sheesh, I have already .... When is this going to happen?

Just the thought of a long drawn out altar service seeking for the baptism just gives me the chills. I stayed away from the altar for years because I saw what went on down there.

[Steve Epley]

Originally Posted by Daniel Alicea

Great thoughts Prax and Pastor Salaz ... you do understand that some would squirm at your assertions ....

I am bothered by some of the inherent contradictions presented by Bernard, here.

Will share some later.

I still shudder how some make a gift .... into an obligation.

Eternal life- justification is a gift are they also an obligation?

[Steve Epley]

Originally Posted by deltaguitar

Just the thought of a long drawn out altar service seeking for the baptism just gives me the chills. I stayed away from the altar for years because I saw what went on down there.

Might have helped ifyou had stayed a little longer?

[Jack Shephard]

Originally Posted by deltaguitar

Just the thought of a long drawn out altar service seeking for the baptism just gives me the chills. I stayed away from the altar for years because I saw what went on down there.

I feel ya. I fear that long drawn out altar services are becoming a thing of the past, but they are still around. I do agree. I feel that at many churches that have them are not because the spirit is keeping them there. I feel that often times the leaders want people to tarry there not so some one get filled to the glory of God, but that they get filled to the glory of the pastor at district meetings telling about the long altar movement and x many got the HG. I am not against long altat services but for the right reasons. You can tell when they are man driven or God driven. I think they are needed but they are not the only thing needed. I do from time to time get the skin crawling feeling about them but I am not God and He might be doing a work in someones life that if the altar service ended real quick that work not be complete.

[mizpeh]

Originally Posted by ManOfWord

And their paradigm of the scripture is that they WILL go to hell...they are just too gutless to state what they really believe!



How many times have we been around the bush with 3 steppers trying to get them to simply state what their viewpoint states and that is that a person is NOT rapture ready until they have spoken with tongues? Many times they wiggle, squirm, side-step and juke and jive until they are cornered and then they really get upset when they have to come clean.'

I have been taken to task numerous times when I have called for intellectual honesty in stating what one believes.

Ultimately you and I know that none of us can send anyone to hell. We will not be the One sitting on the judgement seat.

You put those who believe the new birth is the baptism of water and the baptism of the Spirit with the evidence of speaking in tongues between a rock and a hard place. If we say a believer will not see or enter the kingdom of God without being born again, then you will say we are acting as judges.

If we say we are not judges but simply declare what we believe to be the truth of the word of God ie, tongues is the visible and auditory sign that a believer has been filled with the Holy Spirit, but will not say if a believer does not speak in tongues they are going to hell, then you say we wriggle and squirm and are scared to come clean.


Seriously MOW, what do you expect? Either way you will find fault. So why bother.

[Jack Shephard]

Originally Posted by mizpeh

Ultimately you and I know that none of us can send anyone to hell. We will not be the One sitting on the judgement seat.

You put those who believe the new birth is the baptism of water and the baptism of the Spirit with the evidence of speaking in tongues between a rock and a hard place. If we say a believer will not see or enter the kingdom of God without being born again, then you will say we are acting as judges.

If we say we are not judges but simply declare what we believe to be the truth of the word of God ie, tongues is the visible and auditory sign that a believer has been filled with the Holy Spirit, but will not say if a believer does not speak in tongues they are going to hell, then you say we wriggle and squirm and are scared to come clean.


Seriously MOW, what do you expect? Either way you will find fault. So why bother.

I am not MOW but I speak from a 1 stepper point of view. I think that 3 steppers can be too tough on people and be too judgmental and also can not stand for what you believe. When most 1 steppers speak we are sure of a persons salvation but usually we say that God is the final judge often times when some 3 steppers talk about it they can become damning to those that don't follow. I am not speaking of all 3 steppers and all 1 steppers, but a good amount of each of the parties do this. There is nothing wrong with standing for what one believes in but approaching it from the "I believe this is the biblical way of doing it" is different than "this is the what the bible says to do and all others are hell bound" see the difference in the terms? One is optimistic and the other is judgmental. That is how I see it.

[mizpeh]

Originally Posted by deltaguitar

This is a subject that just starts to make my blood boil. I know what it is like to have people tell me over and over that you must speak in tongues to be saved. I have been told that I just need to turn it all over to God, really let him take control, just get out of the isle and run around the church and he will bless you. I suffered for years because I thought that I wasn't a RIGHT with God. If it wasn't for God's hand in my life and the consistency of the bible I probably would have left church a long time ago. I had basically given up on church even though I was a long time musician in our church.

I do think we should strive to be used in the gifts of the spirit but to make "gifts" a requirement for justification causes huge problems that we see in many Pentecostal circles.

1) People think that they have to speak in tongues to be saved. Well, until they do speak in tongues they can't be used in ministry, they don't feel secure in their salvation, and there is a constant pressure by other members to "get right" with God. There are many that I have come across that expect a visual outward demonstration or they are not satisfied that there is an experience with God. I tried to get the Holy Ghost at a young age. All my friends had it and I thought I should have had it too. But I couldn't figure out the speaking in tongues thing. Finally, I went to Mississippi district youth camp and I just told everyone I got the Holy Ghost when I came back. I had stammering lips of course and had prayed for hours begging and pleading for God to find me good enough to give me the Holy Ghost and I figured I had it though I didn't really speak in tongues. There I said it; it took me 19 years later to actually say those words. I didn't speak in tongues that night but at least I could get the monkey off my back and be accepted by the church family as "saved".

2) A culture of "spiritualism" seems to develop where some people start to think that they must act a certain way in order to be spiritual. We then end up with all the "spiritual" folks getting slain in the spirit, running the aisles, speaking in tongues and demonstrating their superior spirituality to the other saints. You then end up with preachers preaching that "we are a powerful people" and "just look at how WE worship God." This, in my opinion, is a false perception of spirituality and causes confusion as it is a worship of self and our outward demonstrations.

I don't know what to say. I know what the Bible says but I don't want to go there in reply to you.

It's sad that there is so much pressure put upon seekers to speak in tongues that you felt compelled to tell others you had received the Spirit when you hadn't. I've heard others say the same thing but I'm glad you didn't turn away from God through all of this.

I will be praying for you.