Paganism in Christianity

[TK Burk]

Originally Posted by Aquila

I fear most of us have gotten into the habit of only looking at life in terms of what we’re against…and we’ve completely lost focus of our mission and what we’re for! I’m for taking back ALL that Satan has stolen and using it to glorify Jesus Christ. And yes, for you stuffy fearful religious types out there, that includes the Christmas Tree! I might even set aside a night to be with my boy this Fall and carve out a pumpkin with scenes like a cross, a dove, or even the hill side of Calvary!

What we're supposed to be against is SIN. What we're supposed to be for is Jesus. You're flipping this around to make it so that being for sin is being against Jesus.

Since when has taking a stand against pagan practices caused men and women to lose "focus" on their "mission" or on what their supposed to stand for? If anything, such a stance strengthens a saint’s resolve and purpose.

As far as “taking back ALL that satan has stolen,” you need to do a little more reading on that one. The Church NEVER used a decorated evergreen tree or a carved pumpkin in their worship to Jesus Christ. Where we do find these objects used is in pagan worship and celebration. So if you want to take anything away from satan, then work to take the Church BACK to what is WAS!

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by TK Burk

What? This is so backwards from anything in the Bible. God never told His people to take DOMINION of the practices and celebrations of the heathen around them; He commanded that His people separate themselves from such issues and to have no appearance of them. Anytime they did not, and chose instead to bring the’ unclean thing’ into the camp, God judged them.

Please, show where anyone in the New Testament did anything like what you wrote above.

Separating oneself from such practices isn't "cowardous," it’s about HOLINESS.

God wanted his people to separate themselves from the “sinful” practices of the heathen. Paul wrote….

Romans 14:1-23
{14:1} Him that is weak in the faith receive ye, [but] not
to doubtful disputations. {14:2} For one believeth that he
may eat all things: another, who is weak, eateth herbs.
{14:3} Let not him that eateth despise him that eateth not;
and let not him which eateth not judge him that eateth: for
God hath received him. {14:4} Who art thou that judgest
another man’s servant? to his own master he standeth or
falleth. Yea, he shall be holden up: for God is able to make
him stand. {14:5} One man esteemeth one day above
another: another esteemeth every day [alike.] Let every man
be fully persuaded in his own mind. {14:6} He that
regardeth the day, regardeth [it] unto the Lord; and he that
regardeth not the day, to the Lord he doth not regard [it.] He
that eateth, eateth to the Lord, for he giveth God thanks; and
he that eateth not, to the Lord he eateth not, and giveth God
thanks. {14:7} For none of us liveth to himself, and no man
dieth to himself. {14:8} For whether we live, we live unto
the Lord; and whether we die, we die unto the Lord:
whether we live therefore, or die, we are the Lord’s. {14:9}
For to this end Christ both died, and rose, and revived, that
he might be Lord both of the dead and living. {14:10} But
why dost thou judge thy brother? or why dost thou set at
nought thy brother? for we shall all stand before the
judgment seat of Christ. {14:11} For it is written, [As] I
live, saith the Lord, every knee shall bow to me, and every
tongue shall confess to God. {14:12} So then every one of
us shall give account of himself to God. {14:13} Let us not
therefore judge one another any more: but judge this rather,
that no man put a stumblingblock or an occasion to fall in
[his] brother’s way. {14:14} I know, and am persuaded by
the Lord Jesus, that [there is] nothing unclean of itself: but
to him that esteemeth any thing to be unclean, to him [it is]
unclean. {14:15} But if thy brother be grieved with [thy]
meat, now walkest thou not charitably. Destroy not him
with thy meat, for whom Christ died. {14:16} Let not then
your good be evil spoken of: {14:17} For the kingdom of
God is not meat and drink; but righteousness, and peace,
and joy in the Holy Ghost. {14:18} For he that in these
things serveth Christ [is] acceptable to God, and approved
of men. {14:19} Let us therefore follow after the things
which make for peace, and things wherewith one may edify
another. {14:20} For meat destroy not the work of God. All
things indeed [are] pure; but [it is] evil for that man who
eateth with offence. {14:21} [It is] good neither to eat flesh,
nor to drink wine, nor [any thing] whereby thy brother
stumbleth, or is offended, or is made weak. {14:22} Hast
thou faith? have [it] to thyself before God. Happy [is] he
that condemneth not himself in that thing which he
alloweth. {14:23} And he that doubteth is damned if he eat,
because [he eateth] not of faith: for whatsoever [is] not of
faith is sin.

TO BE CONTINUED:

[Aquila]

CONTINUED:

Also Paul wrote….

I Corinthians 8:1-13
{8:1} Now as touching things offered unto idols, we know
that we all have knowledge. Knowledge puffeth up, but
charity edifieth. {8:2} And if any man think that he
knoweth any thing, he knoweth nothing yet as he ought to
know. {8:3} But if any man love God, the same is known of
him. {8:4} As concerning therefore the eating of those
things that are offered in sacrifice unto idols, we know that
an idol [is] nothing in the world, and that [there is] none
other God but one. {8:5} For though there be that are called
gods, whether in heaven or in earth, (as there be gods many,
and lords many,) {8:6} But to us [there is but] one God, the
Father, of whom [are] all things, and we in him; and one
Lord Jesus Christ, by whom [are] all things, and we by him.
{8:7} Howbeit [there is] not in every man that knowledge:
for some with conscience of the idol unto this hour eat [it]
as a thing offered unto an idol; and their conscience being
weak is defiled. {8:8} But meat commendeth us not to God:
for neither, if we eat, are we the better; neither, if we eat
not, are we the worse. {8:9} But take heed lest by any
means this liberty of yours become a stumblingblock to
them that are weak. {8:10} For if any man see thee which
hast knowledge sit at meat in the idol’s temple, shall not the
conscience of him which is weak be emboldened to eat
those things which are offered to idols; {8:11} And through
thy knowledge shall the weak brother perish, for whom
Christ died? {8:12} But when ye sin so against the brethren,
and wound their weak conscience, ye sin against Christ.
{8:13} Wherefore, if meat make my brother to offend, I will
eat no flesh while the world standeth, lest I make my
brother to offend.

Here’s the deal bro….we’re Gentiles, like the Romans. That means we have various ethnic holidays and observances. Unto me, because of my Irish heritage, I have customs, traditions, and days I might regard that you don’t if you’re of German or African heritage. But I regard these things days and customs as part of what I use to glorify God, redeeming my heritage. You don’t observe these things, again, unto the Lord. Maybe your faith is weak and I shouldn’t be so bold in my observances around you. Maybe if I eat meat sacrificed to idols or choose to carve a pumpkin, your faith and conscience is so weak you’d take offense and near stumble. If that is so bro, I’m truly sorry.

But here’s something I firmly believe….some brethren use this “I’m a weaker brother” garbage to CONTROL others. I don’t think you’re as weak or offended as you let on. For you, it’s a control issue. You want to be “holier” than your brethren and if they rejoice around a Christmas Tree on Christmas, enjoy a little eggnog, laugh, joke around, and cuddle up with their sweetheart (wife) in front of the fire place…you don’t know what to make of it.

Bro…I believe in separating myself from “sinful” things and practices. It’s not a sin to choose a day to remember Christ’s birth. It’s not a sin to choose a day to remember his death. It’s not a sin to choose a day to remember the deaths of martyrs who gave all to preserve the translation of the Bible we cherish. It’s not a sin to carve a silly little pumpkin with your little boy. It’s not a sin to put up a Christmas tree and lift that little guy to put the star on top. It’s not a sin to light candles and put them in the window. It’s not a sin to have a little eggnog with the wife after the kids are in bed, put presents under the tree, and have a little romance beneath the Christmas lights. My faith is STRONG. Fearsome sometimes. I don’t FEAR meat sacrificed to idols or given days or customs. Frankly, I TAKE them. Paul wrote this….

II Corinthians 10:3-5
{10:3} For though we walk in the flesh, we do not
war after the flesh: {10:4} (For the weapons of our warfare
[are] not carnal, but mighty through God to the pulling
down of strong holds; ) {10:5} Casting down imaginations,
and every high thing that exalteth itself against the
knowledge of God, and bringing into captivity every
thought to the obedience of Christ;

I like the following translations….

II Corinthians 10:3-5 (NIV)

3For though we live in the world, we do not wage war as the world does. 4The weapons we fight with are not the weapons of the world. On the contrary, they have divine power to demolish strongholds. 5We demolish arguments and every pretension that sets itself up against the knowledge of God, and we take captive every thought to make it obedient to Christ.

II Corinthians 10:3-5 (AMP)

3For though we walk (live) in the flesh, we are not carrying on our warfare according to the flesh and using mere human weapons. 4For the weapons of our warfare are not physical [weapons of flesh and blood], but they are mighty before God for the overthrow and destruction of strongholds, 5[Inasmuch as we] refute arguments and theories and reasonings and every proud and lofty thing that sets itself up against the [true] knowledge of God; and we lead every thought and purpose away captive into the obedience of Christ (the Messiah, the Anointed One),

II Corinthians 10:3-5 (NLT)
3 We are human, but we don’t wage war as humans do. 4 [a]We use God’s mighty weapons, not worldly weapons, to knock down the strongholds of human reasoning and to destroy false arguments. 5 We destroy every proud obstacle that keeps people from knowing God. We capture their rebellious thoughts and teach them to obey Christ.

Bro…we are to tear down the strongholds of hell, every proud obstacle, philosophy, human reasoning, and capture their rebellious concepts and bring all things into obedience to CHRIST. It’s a DOMINION mandate.

We make no compromise with “sin”. But what we’re talking about here isn’t a “sin”. Bro…if you ever bowed down and worshipped a Christmas Tree with pagan mantras or hymns and just can’t resist it when you’re around one…you clearly should avoid putting a Christmas Tree up in your home.

Holiness is separating one’s self from the “sinful” ways of this world. Holiness doesn’t mean drinking water all the time because the world loves Pepsi.

*Side Note* You might find it interesting that coffee has roots in ancient pagan practices among the Arabs. C’mon bro…if it’s a matter of holiness…lay off the coffee too. lol

[U376977]

Originally Posted by Aquila

I think there’s another way to look at this.

We can take the position of being on the defense and try to weed out all pagan influence in our midst until life is a drab, boring, joyless, huddle on a church compound somewhere. Here’s the deal…DOMININON.

The truth is EVERY day belongs to the Lord Jesus Christ. Yes, our pagan ancestors dedicated various days to their pagan deities. However, as Christians it is our responsibility to place all things under the Dominion of Jesus Christ. That means we have the responsibility to plunder pagan holidays and culture and redeem them into something with which to glorify Jesus Christ. Easter and Christmas are wonderful examples of this. We’ve taken what were originally pagan holidays. (Christmas actually isn’t so pagan if the actual history is closely studied, pagan celebrations started around this time under Arelius in an effort to unseat the Christian remembrances of Christ’s birth by resurrecting an ancient pagan holiday custom. And the December 25th date goes back to the Jewish custom of believing that the Messiah would be of “integral age”. But that’s another story.) So we’ve taken these days and stripped them of their pagan worship and only maintained relevant cultural and ethnic traditions redirected at glorifying Christ. And even now in our post-Christian culture we see that Christmas and Easter are days where even the most un-churched consider attending at least one service. For many the Christianization (or Dominion) of these holidays opens a door to show them eternal life at the very least once or twice a year. As heirs of creation we have every right to take what was the devil’s and redeem it to glorify Christ.

We need to stop being cowering cowards in this world, running from anything that doesn’t fit within our traditional religious paradigms. We need to take DOMINION. Halloween is coming…most Christians are going to hide in church or at home screeching against the “Devil’s Night”. NEWSFLASH….the devil doesn’t own Halloween. Even October 31st belongs to JESUS CHRIST. Therefore on that day we’re going to be fellowshipping some families in a fall family night where we eat, play games, party, laugh and just fellowship and love the Lord. Some religious snobs will criticize…but I say…let them criticize with their retreatist concepts. I’m not in retreat….I’m taking dominion of each and every day for Jesus. Yes, I’ll even claim Halloween for Jesus. If I were a pastor I’d not only have a fall family night but a “History Hayride” where saints of God get on a hayride that tours Christian History with seven stops. At each stop there would be a “ghost” of a famous martyr sharing their story and how their faith cost them their very lives. At the end they would stop at the church and the setting would be 10 years from now…during the future persecution. Fictional stories would be told of how world events turned against Christians and stories of saints in our congregation who gave all would be shared….and the emphasis would be….would you be willing to die for him? And if you’d be willing to lay down your life for him in the future…why not lay down your life now…die to the world, sin, and shame and live radically for Jesus? Bring in the altar call! Or a Christian Costume Party could be had where everyone had to dress up as historical figures in Christianity. Yes….I’d TAKE DOMINION and use it to glorify Jesus Christ.

By taking DOMINION, I believe it’s all Christ’s…Easter, Halloween (Actually should be called Holy Evening), Christmas,…you name it.

C’mon folks, stop being motivated by fear and think outside of the box. Take dominion and experience the absolute freedom, joy, and authority only found in Jesus Christ.

The problem with this belief is that it begs the question, Why stop with Christmas and Easter? Lets take “dominion” over the African customs as well. Lets redeem cutting of the flesh, only do it the palms and feet—to remember Christ’s wounds. Lets redeem worship fires, lets dance around fires remembering that Christ redeemed us from hell. Baby sacrifice? Let’s ritualize it with a fake sacrifice—remembering the sacrifice the Father made of Jesus Christ.
You understand the point? In practice, the “take dominion” theory does not hold up. At some point you have to stop "taking dominion."

[helen_febus]

Originally Posted by TK Burk

What? This is so backwards from anything in the Bible. God never told His people to take DOMINION of the practices and celebrations of the heathen around them; He commanded that His people separate themselves from such issues and to have no appearance of them. Anytime they did not, and chose instead to bring the’ unclean thing’ into the camp, God judged them.

Please, show where anyone in the New Testament did anything like what you wrote above.

Separating oneself from such practices isn't "cowardous," it’s about HOLINESS.

___________________________________________

You are so right Brother Burk, and I am afraid that we are now seeing some of this take place (in bold above) in the body as we speak. I love all my brothers and sisters in the Lord. I wish them blessings not judgment. However, the bible is clear that pagan practices bring judgment.

I got to go now, got to get everything ready for our Thursday night service.
God has really been blessing our little church and I just can't wait until to-nights service.

God bless you,

Sister Helen Febus

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by U376977

The problem with this belief is that it begs the question, Why stop with Christmas and Easter? Lets take “dominion” over the African customs as well. Lets redeem cutting of the flesh, only do it the palms and feet—to remember Christ’s wounds. Lets redeem worship fires, lets dance around fires remembering that Christ redeemed us from hell. Baby sacrifice? Let’s ritualize it with a fake sacrifice—remembering the sacrifice the Father made of Jesus Christ.
You understand the point? In practice, the “take dominion” theory does not hold up.

Bro, that’s all silly and nothing but a “spirit of fear”. Right now as we speak African peoples are dancing in traditional garb once worn in their pagan culture, not dancing to honor their tribal spirits but to honor Christ. Yes, they are even playing instruments once used in those pagan celebrations and singing in their language. And yes…the cutting of the flesh is something that can be redeemed, not in practice, but in understanding. Every culture can testify that man can only be cleansed by the shedding of blood. Their ancestors lived in darkness shedding their own blood without a redeemer to shed his blood for them. But here’s the good news….the redeemer has come! They no longer have to walk in darkness shedding their own blood in the hopes that it will “somehow” purify them from their inner pain and sinfulness. They can rest now, knowing that Jesus shed his own blood for them and that they are now FREE! I pray they NEVER forget the darkness their ancestors practiced and how they mutilated themselves in vain efforts to please the creator. I pray whenever they hear of those practices they breathe a sigh of peace knowing that Jesus shed his own blood for them ONCE AND FOR ALL. It might even make a neat church sign logo, hands scared from cutting the flesh raised toward the cross. And as for worship fires, sure, raise that fire remembering how they longed for the fire of God’s presence in the days of their darkness…and testify around that fire that the real FIRE has FALLEN from HEAVEN upon them in the BAPTISM OF THE HOLY GHOST. If they want to dance a jig because of that fire baptism around that fire, I say go ahead! GET DOWN FOR JESUS. If they want to raise their children high in the congregation for the preacher to bless them with a prayer that brings life instead of a sacrificial knife that brings death, offering their child as an offering to God I say…PRAISE THE LORD!

Fake sacrifices and reenactments can be compared to Christmas pageants in an ethnic context. It might be alien to you and me….but it might speak so deeply to their hearts you and I have no way of knowing.

My first pastor would travel to Ethiopia on occasion. One day I was in his office and noticed that behind his desk in the corner was a wooden statue of an African tribal warrior. I asked him the story behind the statue. He said it was given to him by a tribal chieftain. He explained that it was a warrior spirit that was called upon to protect villages and crops. It was a gift to him because the chieftain said that my pastor had the spirit of a spirit warrior because he took a stand against Hell to protect villages, families, and the blessings God had given. My pastor cherished that gift until the day he died. Was it an idol? Technically yes. Was it a sin to own it and share its story? Nope.

I was talking to the Addingtons, missionaries to New Zealand. If I remember correctly they were serving the Maori people and they have this custom of distorting their faces by bugging out their eyes, bearing their teeth, sticking their tongues out, crouching, screaming, and dancing violently before battle, called a hacka. While Bro. Addington was preaching he touched on the subject of declaring war against Hell and fighting Satan through the power of Jesus Christ. He said it was terrifying, the entire group of men sitting in the front bounded to their feet and began a tribal hacka while cursing and binding Satan in the name of Jesus. Bro. Addington thought for a moment that they all had been possessed and were going to attack him! LOL But they ran around that meeting and it broke into a massive tribal hacka blowout service! And many Maori got the Holy Ghost. Give God praise!

Bro….you’re view of what’s “Christian” is filtered by what you know living in a Western culture heavily influenced by English customs, norms, and manners. I’m fully convinced that Heaven will see every tribe, nation, kindred and tongue praising God in their own language, with their own dance, with their own customs, with their own words of adoration, with their own music, and if our resurrected bodies ever wear anything other than white robes in eternity, I’m even convinced they’ll wear the garb of their culture in praise around the throne. I believe it will be a global praise of adoration that brings tears to my eyes just thinking about it. Let the Irish river dance for Jesus, the Maori hacka for Jesus, let the Tutu throw spears after church for Jesus….

Oooo….I feel the Holy Ghost as I’m typing this….here’s a song running through my head right now…

There's a growing root of bitterness
In the world today
From the heart of Johannesburg
To the ghettos of L.A.

A swelling violent undertow
Has gripped the soul of man
But an integrated cry of hope
Echoes across the land

I hear my brothers say
Come, everybody, it's time to start
To let the love of Jesus
In your heart

Every tongue and every race
All of God's children seek His face

Praise the Lord, everybody, praise the Lord
Praise the Lord, everybody, praise the Lord

People of promise take your place
Tell of His mercy and His grace
Lift up your voice to the sky
All of God's children testify

Praise the Lord, everybody, praise the Lord
Praise the Lord, everybody, praise the Lord

We worship You because You are Lord and King
We magnify You because You are the One who reigns
We glorify You because You always remain the same

We worship You because You are Lord and King
We magnify You because You are the One who reigns
We glorify You because You always remain the same

Praise the Lord, everybody, praise the Lord
Praise the Lord, everybody, praise the Lord

We got no time for hit and miss
The world is full of prejudice
You know we just ain't down with this, so come on now
Everybody priase the Lord

He inhabits our praises
Sin He erases
He wants to amaze us, so say this
Everybody praise the Lord

Praise the Lord, everybody, praise the Lord (x4)

Everybody, praise the Lord (x6)

(Everybody Praise the Lord, performed by Carmen)

Bro….you need to open up, expand your vision, allow God to be BIGGER, and stop living life on the run, stop living life in fear. Live life in victory, dominion, celebration, and worship unto the King of All Kings. If some had their way we’d be secluded Pentecostal monks in some monastery somewhere. Living for Jesus would be like living on some sanctified version of Gilligan’s Island; no phone, no light, no motor car, not a single luxury. Like Pentecostal ascetics, as primitive as can be. lol

Originally Posted by U376977

At some point you have to stop "taking dominion."

Never.

[ReformedDave]

Originally Posted by Aquila

Bro…we are to tear down the strongholds of hell, every proud obstacle, philosophy, human reasoning, and capture their rebellious concepts and bring all things into obedience to CHRIST. It’s a DOMINION mandate.

We are to discard the study and use of philosophy?

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by ReformedDave

We are to discard the study and use of philosophy?

Great question!

I think the unlearned could get caught on that one. But here's what I think about it.

Should we discard the study and use of philosophy? .....

I don’t think so. Check this out, Paul himself had at least some knowledge of both pagan philosophy and literature, and he made much use of reasoning in personal evangelism. In Acts 17 we learn that while Paul was in Athens “he reasoned in the synagogue with the Jews and the God-fearing Greeks, as well as in the marketplace day by day with those who happened to be there” (verse 17; NIV). On one occasion Paul spent time conversing and disputing with some of the Stoic and Epicurean philosophers (verse 18). Further, when it suited his purposes, Paul could quote freely (and quite accurately) from the writings of pagan poets. For example, in Acts 17:28 he cites with approval both the Cretan poet Epimenides and the Cilician poet Aratus, using them to make a valid theological point about the nature of God and man to the educated members of the Athenian Areopagus. Thus, I believe that we should at least be cautious before asserting that Paul was opposed to all philosophy and human wisdom. He obviously wasn’t. I think philosophy can become dangerous when it becomes a guiding principle over Scripture. This was what was happening among some Gnostics and even some other mystery cults.

[Aquila]

Where'd everyone go? lol

[U376977]

Originally Posted by Aquila

Bro, that’s all silly and nothing but a “spirit of fear”. Right now as we speak African peoples are dancing in traditional garb once worn in their pagan culture, not dancing to honor their tribal spirits but to honor Christ. Yes, they are even playing instruments once used in those pagan celebrations and singing in their language. And yes…the cutting of the flesh is something that can be redeemed, not in practice, but in understanding. Every culture can testify that man can only be cleansed by the shedding of blood. Their ancestors lived in darkness shedding their own blood without a redeemer to shed his blood for them. But here’s the good news….the redeemer has come! They no longer have to walk in darkness shedding their own blood in the hopes that it will “somehow” purify them from their inner pain and sinfulness. They can rest now, knowing that Jesus shed his own blood for them and that they are now FREE! I pray they NEVER forget the darkness their ancestors practiced and how they mutilated themselves in vain efforts to please the creator. I pray whenever they hear of those practices they breathe a sigh of peace knowing that Jesus shed his own blood for them ONCE AND FOR ALL. It might even make a neat church sign logo, hands scared from cutting the flesh raised toward the cross. And as for worship fires, sure, raise that fire remembering how they longed for the fire of God’s presence in the days of their darkness…and testify around that fire that the real FIRE has FALLEN from HEAVEN upon them in the BAPTISM OF THE HOLY GHOST. If they want to dance a jig because of that fire baptism around that fire, I say go ahead! GET DOWN FOR JESUS. If they want to raise their children high in the congregation for the preacher to bless them with a prayer that brings life instead of a sacrificial knife that brings death, offering their child as an offering to God I say…PRAISE THE LORD!

Fake sacrifices and reenactments can be compared to Christmas pageants in an ethnic context. It might be alien to you and me….but it might speak so deeply to their hearts you and I have no way of knowing.

My first pastor would travel to Ethiopia on occasion. One day I was in his office and noticed that behind his desk in the corner was a wooden statue of an African tribal warrior. I asked him the story behind the statue. He said it was given to him by a tribal chieftain. He explained that it was a warrior spirit that was called upon to protect villages and crops. It was a gift to him because the chieftain said that my pastor had the spirit of a spirit warrior because he took a stand against Hell to protect villages, families, and the blessings God had given. My pastor cherished that gift until the day he died. Was it an idol? Technically yes. Was it a sin to own it and share its story? Nope.

I was talking to the Addingtons, missionaries to New Zealand. If I remember correctly they were serving the Maori people and they have this custom of distorting their faces by bugging out their eyes, bearing their teeth, sticking their tongues out, crouching, screaming, and dancing violently before battle, called a hacka. While Bro. Addington was preaching he touched on the subject of declaring war against Hell and fighting Satan through the power of Jesus Christ. He said it was terrifying, the entire group of men sitting in the front bounded to their feet and began a tribal hacka while cursing and binding Satan in the name of Jesus. Bro. Addington thought for a moment that they all had been possessed and were going to attack him! LOL But they ran around that meeting and it broke into a massive tribal hacka blowout service! And many Maori got the Holy Ghost. Give God praise!

Bro….you’re view of what’s “Christian” is filtered by what you know living in a Western culture heavily influenced by English customs, norms, and manners. I’m fully convinced that Heaven will see every tribe, nation, kindred and tongue praising God in their own language, with their own dance, with their own customs, with their own words of adoration, with their own music, and if our resurrected bodies ever wear anything other than white robes in eternity, I’m even convinced they’ll wear the garb of their culture in praise around the throne. I believe it will be a global praise of adoration that brings tears to my eyes just thinking about it. Let the Irish river dance for Jesus, the Maori hacka for Jesus, let the Tutu throw spears after church for Jesus….

Oooo….I feel the Holy Ghost as I’m typing this….here’s a song running through my head right now…

There's a growing root of bitterness
In the world today
From the heart of Johannesburg
To the ghettos of L.A.

A swelling violent undertow
Has gripped the soul of man
But an integrated cry of hope
Echoes across the land

I hear my brothers say
Come, everybody, it's time to start
To let the love of Jesus
In your heart

Every tongue and every race
All of God's children seek His face

Praise the Lord, everybody, praise the Lord
Praise the Lord, everybody, praise the Lord

People of promise take your place
Tell of His mercy and His grace
Lift up your voice to the sky
All of God's children testify

Praise the Lord, everybody, praise the Lord
Praise the Lord, everybody, praise the Lord

We worship You because You are Lord and King
We magnify You because You are the One who reigns
We glorify You because You always remain the same

We worship You because You are Lord and King
We magnify You because You are the One who reigns
We glorify You because You always remain the same

Praise the Lord, everybody, praise the Lord
Praise the Lord, everybody, praise the Lord

We got no time for hit and miss
The world is full of prejudice
You know we just ain't down with this, so come on now
Everybody priase the Lord

He inhabits our praises
Sin He erases
He wants to amaze us, so say this
Everybody praise the Lord

Praise the Lord, everybody, praise the Lord (x4)

Everybody, praise the Lord (x6)

(Everybody Praise the Lord, performed by Carmen)

Bro….you need to open up, expand your vision, allow God to be BIGGER, and stop living life on the run, [B]stop living life in fear[/B]. Live life in victory, dominion, celebration, and worship unto the King of All Kings. If some had their way we’d be secluded Pentecostal monks in some monastery somewhere. Living for Jesus would be like living on some sanctified version of Gilligan’s Island; no phone, no light, no motor car, not a single luxury. Like Pentecostal ascetics, as primitive as can be. lol



Never.

Please do not presume to know me. Trust me...I do not live my life in fear. I do not need to "expand" my vision to include heathen customs or to think that people practising them are Christian.

You talk of missionaries......I was taught by the greatest modern missionary for about 2 years, T.L. Osborn. He railed against missionaries who demanded western clothes and who force people to use a knife and fork. I get the concept...western does not mean Christian. But heathen practice does not mean Christian either, no matter how it is mixed with Jesus.

Truthfully, the "dominion" you write about has been practiced by Rome for centuries. To the point of idolatry, Indians in South America march into Catholic churches carrying their idol dolls in procession to the crucifix.

You imagine a "whole world" worship service in heaven....somehow I cannot imagine the Apostles doing fire dances and "lifting up babies" as a form of worship that harks back to infant sacrifice--a practice refered to in the Psalms and was abonimable.

You are fanciful in your thinking....but certainly not in the book. The Bible says, "Come out of her....." Not to take her and her customs and make them into a diluted worship. Sorry.....