Nate Wilson: Strongholds and a Ministers Meeting

[Nahum]

Daniel, this is excellent preaching.

I agree with his statements regarding spiritual opression within the church.

I will admit to experiencing it during my current pastorate.

There are strongholds within our cities, our church psyche and our own minds that we must be busy tearing down.

The trouble is, as Brother Wilson so aptly stated, often we are blind to these strongholds. This is why we need folks in the local church with discernment.

BTW, he is speaking about a specific CHURCH he visited. That he was told to have active compassion on them even though he was revolted by the look and feel of the church. I think my admiration for the man just grew.

What if his prayers were/are the difference for this church?

Amazing thought.

[tstew]

I'm not quite sure what the carpets had to do with a spiritual stronghold but.....

[SDG]

Originally Posted by Pastor Poster

Daniel, this is excellent preaching.

I agree with his statements regarding spiritual opression within the church.

I will admit to experiencing it during my current pastorate.

There are strongholds within our cities, our church psyche and our own minds that we must be busy tearing down.

The trouble is, as Brother Wilson so aptly stated, often we are blind to these strongholds. This is why we need folks in the local church with discernment.

BTW, he is speaking about a specific CHURCH he visited. That he was told to have active compassion on them even though he was revolted by the look and feel of the church. I think my admiration for the man just grew.

What if his prayers were/are the difference for this church?

Amazing thought.

Originally Posted by tstew

I'm not quite sure what the carpets had to do with a spiritual stronghold but.....

Surely his points on overcoming strongholds ... are well founded ...

they are all around us ...

but I wonder if this is an approach that is unique to the meeting and issue that they were addressing several years ago ... whatever it may be .... or is this a pervasive attitude towards those one may disagree with?

I have questions about entering a business meeting of your peers in your circle of fellowship and leaving w/ the impression that they are "oppressed" ... however.

So much so that you are angry enough to beat on your car steering wheel when you're done?

NW relates the decrepitness of a building with the meeting itself.

Is it me ...or does one have to spiritualize business meetings and disagreements among your peers ...?

In describing the meeting he states:

"The feelings were deadness ... The proceedings were deadness".

"They don't know they are oppressed ... "They dont know it but their work is oppressed"

I don't know what the "issue" was about but did this type of thinking carry over to the TV issue and other points of disagreement.

Perceptions of ministers living in spiritual squalor means what ... PP??

In NW's view ... He doesn't intend to live the rest of his life "accommodating weakness" ... "being a man-pleaser" ... and "accommodating that which is not of God". Which in it of itself I agree with ... but in the context of the WWPF ... this has to do w/ a box w/ wires.

I don't disagree w/ the notion that we fight against princes of darkness and principalities ... but I wonder if we think our brother is oppressed because "they've allowed things" we disagree with ... if so .... Does that skew your approach in handling conflicts and differences of opinions?
Sounds like you are w/ me or against me.

If these are indeed spiritual strongholds in the lives of one's ministerial lives ... then prayer is the only weapon that should be in order ....

Just thinking out loud. Sorry if no one agrees, doesn't know what I'm talking about or if you think this is a stretch.

[SDG]

Originally Posted by tstew

I'm not quite sure what the carpets had to do with a spiritual stronghold but.....

I think he relates old dirty carpets and old paneling to a mindset that doesn't want to "grow" or accommodates "spiritual squalor" ... which may be true or not true ... I just wonder if these feelings are based on disagreement in direction or not agreeing w/ me?

Perhaps he view the decriptness of the building w/ the squalor he has discerned in the lives and attitudes of his peers?

[Pastor Keith]

Originally Posted by Daniel Alicea

Surely his points on overcoming strongholds ... are well founded ...

they are all around us ...

but I wonder if this is an approach that is unique to the meeting and issue that they were addressing several years ago ... whatever it may be .... or is this a pervasive attitude towards those one may disagree with?

I have questions about entering a business meeting of your peers in your circle of fellowship and leaving w/ the impression that they are "oppressed" ... however.

So much so that you are angry enough to beat on your car steering wheel when you're done?

NW relates the decrepitness of a building with the meeting itself.

Is it me ...or does one have to spiritualize business meetings and disagreements among your peers ...?

In describing the meeting he states:

"The feelings were deadness ... The proceedings were deadness".

"They don't know they are oppressed ... "They dont know it but their work is oppressed"

I don't know what the "issue" was about but did this type of thinking carry over to the TV issue and other points of disagreement.

Perceptions of ministers living in spiritual squalor means what ... PP??

In NW's view ... He doesn't intend to live the rest of his life "accommodating weakness" ... "being a man-pleaser" ... and "accommodating that which is not of God". Which in it of itself I agree with ... but in the context of the WWPF ... this has to do w/ a box w/ wires.

I don't disagree w/ the notion that we fight against princes of darkness and principalities ... but I wonder if we think our brother is oppressed because "they've allowed things" you disagree with ... if so .... Does that skew your approach in handling conflicts and differences of opinions?

Just thinking out loud. Sorry if no one agrees, don't know what I'm talking about or if you think this is a stretch.

Because we shape buildings, environments and eventually they shape us.

When I pastored in another state, the building that housed the church was in decrepit shape, I remodeled the building a year and half later, it casued a firestorm and eventually led to me leaving.

You wouldn't believe how much love people have for paneled walls. In this case the building only reflected the spiritual state of the people, old, dead and content to stay in that state.

[Nahum]

Originally Posted by Daniel Alicea

Surely his points on overcoming strongholds ... are well founded ...

they are all around us ...

but I wonder if this is an approach that is unique to the meeting and issue that they were addressing several years ago ... whatever it may be .... or is this a pervasive attitude towards those one may disagree with?

I have questions about entering a business meeting of your peers in your circle of fellowship and leaving w/ the impression that they are "oppressed" ... however.

So much so that you are angry enough to beat on your car steering wheel when you're done?

NW relates the decrepitness of a building with the meeting itself.

Is it me ...or does one have to spiritualize business meetings and disagreements among your peers ...?

In describing the meeting he states:

"The feelings were deadness ... The proceedings were deadness".

"They don't know they are oppressed ... "They dont know it but their work is oppressed"

I don't know what the "issue" was about but did this type of thinking carry over to the TV issue and other points of disagreement.

Perceptions of ministers living in spiritual squalor means what ... PP??

In NW's view ... He doesn't intend to live the rest of his life "accommodating weakness" ... "being a man-pleaser" ... and "accommodating that which is not of God". Which in it of itself I agree with ... but in the context of the WWPF ... this has to do w/ a box w/ wires.

I don't disagree w/ the notion that we fight against princes of darkness and principalities ... but I wonder if we think our brother is oppressed because "they've allowed things" you disagree with ... if so .... Does that skew your approach in handling conflicts and differences of opinions?

If these are indeed spiritual strongholds in the lives of one's ministerial lives ... then prayer is the only weapon that should be in order ....

Just thinking out loud. Sorry if no one agrees, doesn't know what I'm talking about or if you think this is a stretch.

I understand your concern, but I don't know if it is well-founded.

I have been in a supposed spiritual edifice, only to feel severe oppression due to out-moded ideals and unbendable principalities and powers.

I am 40 years old, many years younger than NW, but I can tell you that I have reached some of his same conclusions about being a man-pleaser. I simply do not have the time or inclination to gather concensus before I can move in any direction. At some point I have to be man enough, and spiritual enough, to make bold moves.

Think of it this way. Apply what NW is saying to what we view are out-dated standards. Do you feel like SOME of those things lead to spiritual oppression?

He is saying, in a uniquely different way, that he refuses to be pigeon-holed by the opinions of others.

I can respect that.

I understand what NW is saying, and can see his point clearly.

Daniel, maybe we are reading too much into his comments?

[tstew]

Originally Posted by Daniel Alicea

I think he relates old dirty carpets and old paneling to a mindset that doesn't want to "grow" or accommodates "spiritual squalor" ... which may be true or not true ... I just wonder if these feelings are based on disagreement in direction or not agreeing w/ me?

Perhaps he view the decriptness of the building w/ the squalor he has discerned in the lives and attitudes of his peers?

I'm just saying that I have seen some people without the financial means to have a beautiful building and that did not necessarily reflect on their spiritual deadness in my opinion. I have also seen many immaculate beautiful buildings filled with dead men's bones.

[SDG]

Originally Posted by tstew

I'm just saying that I have seen some people without the financial means to have a beautiful building and that did not necessarily reflect on their spiritual deadness in my opinion. I have also seen many immaculate beautiful buildings filled with dead men's bones.

Absolutely ... if this was a business meeting within his section or district ... it probably was attended by many ministers from various other churches ... not necessarily from that local church edifice.

Yet for reasons unknown NW equated this building to the spiritual squalor of his peers ....

[SDG]

Originally Posted by Pastor Poster

Daniel, maybe we are reading too much into his comments?

Could be.

[SDG]

BTW ... is NW from the Northeast originally? Or his family? His speech reflects perhaps a New England accent.