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06-08-2008, 04:30 PM
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Forever Loved Admin
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Re: Was Abraham's Relationship W/Hagar Adulterous?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rico
That situation is what has given us the Middle East conflict we deal with today. The Arabs are Ishmaelites and the Israelis are descendants of Isaac. Someone correct me if I am wrong on this. I am totally straining my brain to remember some of these things I was taught.
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Jewish history is confusing to me sometimes too.
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If my people, which are called by my name, shall humble themselves, and pray, and seek my face, and turn from their wicked ways; then will I hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin, and will heal their land.
2 Chronicles 7:14 KJV
He hath shewed thee, O man, what is good; and what doth the LORD require of thee, but to do justly, and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with thy God? Micah 6:8 KJV
Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is. 1 John 3:2 KJV
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06-08-2008, 04:42 PM
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Go Dodgers!
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Re: Was Abraham's Relationship W/Hagar Adulterous?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pastor Poster
Was Abraham's Relationship With Hagar Adulterous?
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This was before the law was given. However it was not really adulterous under those conditions but more polygamous.
She was a concubine and concubines were wives of inferior status
__________________
Let it be understood that Apostolic Friends Forum is an Apostolic Forum.
Apostolic is defined on AFF as:
- There is One God. This one God reveals Himself distinctly as Father, Son and Holy Ghost.
- The Son is God himself in a human form or "God manifested in the flesh" (1Tim 3:16)
- Every sinner must repent of their sins.
- That Jesus name baptism is the only biblical mode of water baptism.
- That the Holy Ghost is for today and is received by faith with the initial evidence of speaking in tongues.
- The saint will go on to strive to live a holy life, pleasing to God.
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06-08-2008, 05:02 PM
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Forever Loved Admin
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Re: Was Abraham's Relationship W/Hagar Adulterous?
To me if Sarah was able to GIVE her to Abraham there is something wrong from the get go.
__________________
If my people, which are called by my name, shall humble themselves, and pray, and seek my face, and turn from their wicked ways; then will I hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin, and will heal their land.
2 Chronicles 7:14 KJV
He hath shewed thee, O man, what is good; and what doth the LORD require of thee, but to do justly, and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with thy God? Micah 6:8 KJV
Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is. 1 John 3:2 KJV
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06-08-2008, 05:03 PM
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Forever Loved Admin
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Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Texas
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Re: Was Abraham's Relationship W/Hagar Adulterous?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Praxeas
This was before the law was given. However it was not really adulterous under those conditions but more polygamous.
She was a concubine and concubines were wives of inferior status
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Sounds right, what a horrible practice.
__________________
If my people, which are called by my name, shall humble themselves, and pray, and seek my face, and turn from their wicked ways; then will I hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin, and will heal their land.
2 Chronicles 7:14 KJV
He hath shewed thee, O man, what is good; and what doth the LORD require of thee, but to do justly, and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with thy God? Micah 6:8 KJV
Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is. 1 John 3:2 KJV
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06-08-2008, 05:17 PM
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Administrator
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Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 13,829
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Re: Was Abraham's Relationship W/Hagar Adulterous?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Praxeas
This was before the law was given. However it was not really adulterous under those conditions but more polygamous.
She was a concubine and concubines were wives of inferior status
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True. But she started out just as Sarah's servant--it was Sarah's idea for Abraham to have a concubine.
I think you're right--it was more polygamous...didn't Jacob have children by both of his wives' maidservants, as well as Rachel & Leah?
I definitely wouldn't call it adulterous.
__________________
"God, send me anywhere, only go with me. Lay any burden on me, only sustain me. And sever any tie in my heart except the tie that binds my heart to Yours."
--David Livingstone
"To see no being, not God’s or any, but you also go thither,
To see no possession but you may possess it—enjoying all without labor or purchase—
abstracting the feast, yet not abstracting one particle of it;…."
--Walt Whitman, Leaves of Grass, Song of the Open Road
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06-08-2008, 05:19 PM
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Go Dodgers!
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Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 45,787
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Re: Was Abraham's Relationship W/Hagar Adulterous?
Quote:
Originally Posted by MissBrattified
True. But she started out just as Sarah's servant--it was Sarah's idea for Abraham to have a concubine.
I think you're right--it was more polygamous...didn't Jacob have children by both of his wives' maidservants, as well as Rachel & Leah?
I definitely wouldn't call it adulterous.
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I think Jacob did yes.
__________________
Let it be understood that Apostolic Friends Forum is an Apostolic Forum.
Apostolic is defined on AFF as:
- There is One God. This one God reveals Himself distinctly as Father, Son and Holy Ghost.
- The Son is God himself in a human form or "God manifested in the flesh" (1Tim 3:16)
- Every sinner must repent of their sins.
- That Jesus name baptism is the only biblical mode of water baptism.
- That the Holy Ghost is for today and is received by faith with the initial evidence of speaking in tongues.
- The saint will go on to strive to live a holy life, pleasing to God.
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06-08-2008, 05:19 PM
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Administrator
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Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 13,829
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Re: Was Abraham's Relationship W/Hagar Adulterous?
Quote:
Originally Posted by cneasttx
To me if Sarah was able to GIVE her to Abraham there is something wrong from the get go.
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Sure. It was called "slavery." One person could own another.
__________________
"God, send me anywhere, only go with me. Lay any burden on me, only sustain me. And sever any tie in my heart except the tie that binds my heart to Yours."
--David Livingstone
"To see no being, not God’s or any, but you also go thither,
To see no possession but you may possess it—enjoying all without labor or purchase—
abstracting the feast, yet not abstracting one particle of it;…."
--Walt Whitman, Leaves of Grass, Song of the Open Road
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06-08-2008, 05:25 PM
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Solid 3 Stepper
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Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 1,802
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Re: Was Abraham's Relationship W/Hagar Adulterous?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pastor Poster
Was Abraham's Relationship With Hagar Adulterous?
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No!!!
Multiple wives was not a sin under the Law.
Gideon had many wives plus concubines.
[ Judg 8:30] And Gideon had threescore and ten sons of his body begotten: for he had many wives.
[ Judg 8:31] And his concubine that was in Shechem, she also bare him a son, whose name he called Abimelech.
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06-08-2008, 05:27 PM
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Administrator
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Join Date: Feb 2007
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Re: Was Abraham's Relationship W/Hagar Adulterous?
Quote:
Originally Posted by cneasttx
Oh yeah, that made it all better. Actually Sarah was just wrong. And then Ishmael was a reminder of her impetousness. Still adultery to me if they weren't married even under the Law. Is a concubine a wife under the Law?
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I don't think that it would have been adulterous under the law, which is where we get the commandment against adultery in the first place. 
Scripture seems to treat this situation with some degree of normalcy-- Exodus 21 is talking about wives who are taken in captivity, and Deut. is just addressing the generic situation of having two wives. ("...one beloved and the other hated.")
Exodus 21:10 If he take him another wife; her food, her raiment, and her duty of marriage, shall he not diminish.
Deuteronomy 21:15 If a man have two wives,...
__________________
"God, send me anywhere, only go with me. Lay any burden on me, only sustain me. And sever any tie in my heart except the tie that binds my heart to Yours."
--David Livingstone
"To see no being, not God’s or any, but you also go thither,
To see no possession but you may possess it—enjoying all without labor or purchase—
abstracting the feast, yet not abstracting one particle of it;…."
--Walt Whitman, Leaves of Grass, Song of the Open Road
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06-08-2008, 05:52 PM
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Matthew 7:6
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Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 4,768
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Re: Was Abraham's Relationship W/Hagar Adulterous?
Not at all.
No more than Jacob's relationship with the Bilhah and Zilpah (the handmaidens of Leah and Rachel) were adulterous.
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Daniel 12:3 And those who are wise shall shine like the brightness of the firmament; and those who turn many to righteousness, like the stars for ever.
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