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Deep Waters 'Deep Calleth Unto Deep ' -The place to go for Ministry discussions. Please keep it civil. Remember to discuss the issues, not each other. |
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![Old](http://www.apostolicfriendsforum.com/forum/NewBlueDefault/statusicon/post_old.gif)
03-20-2007, 11:13 AM
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![rrford's Avatar](customavatars/avatar39_1.gif) |
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Excellent thread Deacon.
IMO, every major denomination and area of society deals with this issue.
"Be who you is, not who you ain't. Cause if you is who you ain't, then you ain't who you is."
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03-20-2007, 11:22 AM
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![CC1's Avatar](customavatars/avatar88_2.gif) |
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rrford
Excellent thread Deacon.
IMO, every major denomination and area of society deals with this issue.
"Be who you is, not who you ain't. Cause if you is who you ain't, then you ain't who you is."
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Yup. There is always a hierarchy.
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03-20-2007, 11:26 AM
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Never played the game.
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03-20-2007, 12:46 PM
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![Margies3's Avatar](customavatars/avatar26_1.gif) |
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Excellent, just excellent.
I was thinking as I was reading this that if we measure ourselves up next to the "old money" folks, we'll probably never make it. But if line ourselves up with the One who owns the cattle on a thousand hills, He invites us right up next to Him. In fact, He adopts us and make us His own. that's a vast difference between getting to caddy for the rich folks, eh? Isn't God good to us!!!
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03-20-2007, 01:00 PM
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![QueenEsther's Avatar](customavatars/avatar203_1.gif) |
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Quote:
Originally Posted by deacon blues
In high school I became good friends with the son of a successful businessman in my hometown. He started coming to church with me and God got ahold of him and he repented was baptized and received the HG. He had a great singing voice and soon got involved with the music ministry of our church. His two sisters eventually came to the Lord as a result and some of their friends got baptized and received the HG as well. His conversion became the beginning of a "mini-revival" in our church youth group and we saw dozens of high school kids come to God in that time.
Being his friend I was introduced to a whole new world of visiting the homes of the rich and influential people in our town. I went into some of the nicest homes on "The Hill", where a lot of rich people in our town lived. I would go with my buddy to the country club and hang out and eat at the restaurant and charge the food to his dad's tab. I got a job at the country club caddying for doctors and lawyers and businessmen at the golf course. His sister, the high school homecoming queen who later got saved, started to go out with me. She was the prettiest girl in school.
I learned things I had never known about style and fashion and class and etiquette and image and "old money" versus "new money". I felt pressure to play THE GAME of trying to gain acceptance and get my hair cut the cool way, and wear the right style of jeans, trying to be "preppy", wearing the coolest shoes, and shopping at the acceptable stores in town and being able to talk the talk of the upper crust and find their favor.
It didn't last long, I soon learned that although I was liked by many of these people, I would never be one of "them". After all we lived in a working class neighborhood. My dad was the son of a share cropper from Oklahoma and was a telephone man. We weren't old money, we weren't new money. We were "some money" and not much of that. I wasn't a blue blood. I was always a guest at the country club, not a member. The member's sons weren't caddying for the pro shop, they were taking lessons and playing on the golf course. Besides that, it was all so phony, superficial, and shallow. It just wasn't me and it wasn't the way I was raised.
I was also the grandson of an Apostolic preacher. I was also the nephew of the current pastor of "that church", you know, the holy roller bunch, the ones that spoke in tongues and ran the aisles and the people dressed funny and didn't do this and didn't do that.
I remember being at the home of one very wealthy family around the holidays. Our Ladies Auxiliary held an annual "Christmas Bazaar" that was well known in the community for its crafts and homemade baked goods. The wife/mother of this family was talking to me and asking me about my life and the subject of church came up and she found out where I attended. She said, "Hey you all have that Christmas Bazaar there every year. We always go to that. Do you know when it is?" I responded that I didn't know. She called out to her daughter who was in the other room. "Hey Cindy, when is Mark's church Bazaar?" Cindy replied, "Always".
I was a very secure young person, I had great parents who loved me unconditionally and I had been raised to love the Lord and His Word and His Church. I was also taught to love people no matter who they were. I grew up knowing that my father was personally known by the mayor of my town, but the town idiot knew my dad on a first name basis as well. My dad was a lover of people and taught me that God is no respector of persons. I felt sorry for a lot of these rich folks. I saw how their lives were hollow and empty. Sure there was a carnal side of me that wanted acceptance from them, but ultimately they didn't intimidate me. I was the one who had the greatest treasure on earth: the Lord Jesus.
I graduated from high school and went to Bible school, I had felt a call to ministry at sixteen. Most of my friends from school chose other paths, continuing to play THE GAME, making choices that would benefit them financially and secure a lucrative future. Many of them achieved that goal. Today they are financially successful, they are driving fine vehicles, they are wearing the finest clothes, they live in the finest homes. They are members of the country club. I was reminded a few years ago at my 20 year reunion that although I was thought of fondly by these people, I still wasn't one of "them", I was the son of the phone man, the holy roller, and now the preacher. In fact in high school one guy nicknamed me "reverend" and would call me that every time he saw me in the halls. He was at the reunion, loud, the life of the party, the center of attention. He was nice to me, respectful and genuine. But we were worlds apart.
It was funny. The elitist attitude I saw in the fathers and mothers of the blue bloods growing up was now the attitude of their sons and daughters. The good looking, well dressed "old money" people congregated and socialized. They even let the "new money" people in on their conversations. The computer geeks were on the periphery, as were the working class stiffs and the odd and strange misfit anti social types. In twenty years not much had changed.
When I graduated from Bible school I soon came to realize that there was a sub culture of elitist, country club Pentecostals in the UPC. At the conferences as a young, single adult minister, I would find myself engaged in conversations with the "blue bloods", young men and women who wore the finest clothes, drove the nicest cars, dated the best looking preacher's sons and duaghters (some weren't so good looking but they had a name!). I felt those same feelings of pressure to gain acceptance and tried hard to scrape together enough cash to buy a really sharp looking suit, some fine shoes, spending money I couldn't afford to spend, spending money I didn't have to spend.
As hard as I tried, I could never be one of them. I tried to play THE GAME for a short while, but it wasn't me. It was shallow and silly, empty and useless. I didn't like the scene when I was in high school. I didn't like it now as a young adult. I would just be me. I had a ministry to worry about now. I had young people to lead. I had a walk with God to continue to develop and cultivate. The "hot shot" evangelists would come and preach for us. Some of them were really awesome individuals and earned my respect. Some of them lived in a different universe that I could not relate to. I decided early on I will not get suckered into THE GAME. I would not play politics to get elected sectional youth leader. I pulled my name when it came up for district youth president. I would not marry a preacher's daughter simply b/c it would be a good career move. I would not adopt a corporate mindset with my ministry career. I would not seek to join the club.
Sometimes its a temptation. Sometimes at a General Conference, or BOTT or at a District function you feel its tentacles trying to pull you in. "How many you runnin' now, doc?" is the ubiquitous question. You're afraid to get asked the question b/c its a few less than the last time you answered that question. The flashy preacher walks in the building looking like a million bucks, you notice the button is missing on your $200 sport coat. He drives off with his country club buddies in their $60,000 vehicle with their trophy wives, and the nanny chasing after the kids while you get in your '99 mid size car with 120,000 miles alone b/c the wife and kids couldn't make it this time. They eat at Ruth's Chris. You swing by the drive thru.
Its all good. I could pull down six figures if I wanted to, but I gave the church secretary a raise. I gave the janitor a raise. I hired a youth pastor. I hired a music minister. I hired a receptionist. We remodeled the church, it doesn't look like a museum, but we did get the ghastly canary yellow paint off of the platform! The parsonage needed a lot of work. We increased foreign missions.
I'm cool with all that. I made up my mind I would seek first the kingdom, not my kingdom. I realized a long time ago it was His church, not my church. I can't afford to play games. I don't need peer approval. I don't seek to please my colleagues. I don't have to be elected to anything to be fulfilled. God has given me friends. Plenty of them. Good friends. Great friends. I have found more people I respect in ministry than not. I have found that many people I misjudged as shallow and empty really had more depth than I gave them credit for and I needed to repent for being shallow myself.
God is good to me. I love my wife. She is a great woman. She is a wonderful mother. I have three lovely children two of which are saved and one will be as soon as I beat the terrible twos out of him. I have been blessed with a sweet group of people to pastor and they are good to us. I have the Lord in my life and His plan is unfolding before me and I'm loving every minute of it.
I don't know why I felt compelled to write this. Maybe there's somebody on here reading this feeling the same insecurities, feelings of failure, feelings of inadequacy, self-doubt, and a sense that you don't belong with the elite, the best, the cream of the crop. Its a lie. There's no such thing in God's Kingdom. We're all a bunch of dirt bags in one sense and we're all "blue bloods" in another sense. More like "red bloods", or maybe "His bloods".
If you feel pressure to play THE GAME---don't. If you are playing THE GAME---quit. Do what you're called to do. Be real. Be genuine. Be true to yourself and others. Love the Lord with your whole being and love your brother, pray for him and help him when his hour of need arrives. Because in the end we all need each other.
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This was great!! Thank you! Although I am not a pastor (or wife) I have felt these feelings before. Again, thank you for this great post.
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03-20-2007, 05:02 PM
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Thanks, Deacon.
I remember growing up when my dad was pastoring a small home-missions church, us shopping at Goodwill for Easter clothes....and even as a kid I could sense the way Dad's family would "feel sorry" for us and wonder why he didn't get into the family business. His little brother was pulling in six figures in the 80's, while we were having soup beans and cornbread several times a week. But somehow, I never realized how poor we were. I just knew that dad was the only one in his family who was not an alocholic, had not been married multiple times, never had a problem with substance abuse.... ours was a home of peace.
As time went by and our economics got better (and I matured), I realized we had SUCH a better life....I wouldn't trade it for the world.
Thanks for reminding me how blessed I was.
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03-20-2007, 07:08 PM
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![Sam's Avatar](customavatars/avatar257_1.gif) |
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DB,
That was a GREAT post!!!!!!
Thank you.
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Sam also known as Jim Ellis
Apostolic in doctrine
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![Old](http://www.apostolicfriendsforum.com/forum/NewBlueDefault/statusicon/post_old.gif)
03-20-2007, 07:41 PM
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DB,
Awesome post! This is a real issue that needs real attention by each and every one of us!
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03-20-2007, 08:58 PM
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![Margies3's Avatar](customavatars/avatar26_1.gif) |
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lisafitzh2o
Thanks, Deacon.
I remember growing up when my dad was pastoring a small home-missions church, us shopping at Goodwill for Easter clothes....and even as a kid I could sense the way Dad's family would "feel sorry" for us and wonder why he didn't get into the family business. His little brother was pulling in six figures in the 80's, while we were having soup beans and cornbread several times a week. But somehow, I never realized how poor we were. I just knew that dad was the only one in his family who was not an alocholic, had not been married multiple times, never had a problem with substance abuse.... ours was a home of peace.
As time went by and our economics got better (and I matured), I realized we had SUCH a better life....I wouldn't trade it for the world.
Thanks for reminding me how blessed I was. ![Tip Hat](http://www.apostolicfriendsforum.com/images/smilies/tiphat.gif)
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Lisa, my cousin came to my mom several years ago. She told my mom that she had always thought that we were the "rich relatives". If their family dropped in at supper time with their parents and seven kids, we always had plenty to share. If they ever needed anything, they always knew they could come to my parents and it would be taken care of. Little did she realize at the time that while my dad was making barely over minimum wage, her parents BOTH worked at General Motors. And we all know how well they paid (pay). We lived on $5000-$8000 a year, while they brought in an easy $60,000-70,000. And yet, to her we were rich. At our house, love was served at every meal. At her house, no one even made meals, let alot shared them together.
Today, all 5 of the kids from our family are all productive, well-adjusted, fine people. In her family, one brother is a school teacher, so he turned out good (he hung out at our house more than at his own!). 2 brothers are druggies, one sister has been married 4 times and is currently married to a child molester, one other brother is wandering aimlessly in life. One sister is in church and doing well (my grandma raised her) and the other flops from job to job.
Amazing, isn't it!
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Be kinder than necessary because everyone you meet is fighting some kind of a battle ! ! ! ! ![Hug3](http://www.apostolicfriendsforum.com/images/smilies/hug3.gif)
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03-25-2007, 03:18 PM
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For those of you that missed this and those that want more meat here!
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