HO, all I can say is I have seen time where immediately after someone receives the HG that a lady in the church comes up to them and starts to dictate scripture out of context to basically tell them they have to change in order to be holy. I have personally seen after the pastor preaches a message about God's grace and mercy some one receives His spirit and then the next breath after they are done a lady is 'setting them straight' on the conditions of receiving God's grace. It doesn't make sense. Now this is an extreme situation, but I have seen it. Just let a women or man sit in a conservative congregation without changing anything....you will start to see one of two things. First the preacher preaching at them or the saints starting bible studies with them basically to teach them the ways of dress codes. I have seen it all too many times.
Sadly, I have to admit that I've seen it as well, but I'm happy to know that this way of doing things is going by the wayside. I now know lots of pastors who will not allow the saints to do the informing to the new converts. I think it's wrong, and it's not their job. God doesn't need our help, right?
The biggest issue I'm dealing with at the moment is pastors and saints who 'teach' people who to speak in tongues. This happened again on Sunday morning.
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I've gone and done it now! I'm on Facebook!!!
1. I understand the need to put rules in place that reduce distraction from the platform.
2. I do not understand how something can be salvational for the staff, but not for the layman. It's either good for both, or neither.
However: I also understand that those on the platform, and therefore in the "public" eye, have to appeal to the entire cross section of the congregation, from the most liberal to the most conservative saint, so erring on the side of the conservative tends to be less offensive overall. You can't minister to people and offend them at the same time. Those in leadership have a greater obligation to be inoffensive, for lack of a better word.
I DO take issue when a pastor says or believes that something is salvational, but only requires it of staff. Either he doesn't really believe its important, and is just saying that he does, OR he doesn't care as much about the salvation of the saint as he does the staff member. It's bad either way.
There is nothing wrong with the pastor or other leaders asking a group to abide by certain rules or preferences, as long as those rules or preferences are clearly understood as being just that--rules and preferences.
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"God, send me anywhere, only go with me. Lay any burden on me, only sustain me. And sever any tie in my heart except the tie that binds my heart to Yours."
--David Livingstone
"To see no being, not God’s or any, but you also go thither,
To see no possession but you may possess it—enjoying all without labor or purchase—
abstracting the feast, yet not abstracting one particle of it;…."
--Walt Whitman, Leaves of Grass, Song of the Open Road
I have seen churches that allow anything on the platform and sometimes, it's distracting or it just doesn't look right. For instance, jeans or jeanskirts (to me) doesn't look right on the platform. I think it's a good idea to have platform people look more dressed up than those on the pew.
Sorry but does remind me of this:
1: My brethren, have not the faith of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Lord of glory, with respect of persons.
2: For if there come unto your assembly a man with a gold ring, in goodly apparel, and there come in also a poor man in vile raiment;
3: And ye have respect to him that weareth the gay clothing, and say unto him, Sit thou here in a good place; and say to the poor, Stand thou there, or sit here under my footstool:
1. I understand the need to put rules in place that reduce distraction from the platform.
2. I do not understand how something can be salvational for the staff, but not for the layman. It's either good for both, or neither.
However: I also understand that those on the platform, and therefore in the "public" eye, have to appeal to the entire cross section of the congregation, from the most liberal to the most conservative saint, so erring on the side of the conservative tends to be less offensive overall. You can't minister to people and offend them at the same time. Those in leadership have a greater obligation to be inoffensive, for lack of a better word.
I DO take issue when a pastor says or believes that something is salvational, but only requires it of staff. Either he doesn't really believe its important, and is just saying that he does, OR he doesn't care as much about the salvation of the saint as he does the staff member. It's bad either way.
There is nothing wrong with the pastor or other leaders asking a group to abide by certain rules or preferences, as long as those rules or preferences are clearly understood as being just that--rules and preferences.
Agreed. Also do not forget the old thing 'it is sin for you and your family but not for mine' mind set. Often times family of the ministry are either hammered over the top if they mess up or most often it is swept under the rug in hopes the mess is not noticed.
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"If we don't learn to live together we're gonna die alone"
Jack Shephard.
1: My brethren, have not the faith of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Lord of glory, with respect of persons.
2: For if there come unto your assembly a man with a gold ring, in goodly apparel, and there come in also a poor man in vile raiment;
3: And ye have respect to him that weareth the gay clothing, and say unto him, Sit thou here in a good place; and say to the poor, Stand thou there, or sit here under my footstool:
Don't read more into my post than what I wrote. Thanks.
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I've gone and done it now! I'm on Facebook!!!
Also don't forget about the papers you have to fill out saying you don't do certain things, before you get on the platform.
Nothing wrong with that, to a certain degree. Even in my line of work, there are things, if I do them even on off time, can affect my license.
And hey, if one doesn't want to follow the platform rules, then don't be on the platform!! It's that simple to me.
I was once a member of the choir in a church I attended. My pastor gave me a verbal list of his preferences (none of them Biblical nor did he say they were, just that they were his preference). I listened to him and made my decision.
I was a member of the choir for 2 years. When I quit the choir, I was no longer bound by his rules and was free to do as I chose. He didn't think badly of me either way, but I respected his wishes while I was a platform member.
Having said that, I DON'T agree with someone that makes those preferences Biblical. Like Abi said, either they are for all or they aren't for any.
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I've gone and done it now! I'm on Facebook!!!
I can only speak for my home church, but the platform has the same liberty as the rest of the church does. There is no distinction, because we are all part of the New Covenant priesthood in Christ. Why should one group have stronger standards than another, for we all are brethren in Christ.
Nothing wrong with that, to a certain degree. Even in my line of work, there are things, if I do them even on off time, can affect my license.
And hey, if one doesn't want to follow the platform rules, then don't be on the platform!! It's that simple to me.
I was once a member of the choir in a church I attended. My pastor gave me a verbal list of his preferences (none of them Biblical nor did he say they were, just that they were his preference). I listened to him and made my decision.
I was a member of the choir for 2 years. When I quit the choir, I was no longer bound by his rules and was free to do as I chose. He didn't think badly of me either way, but I respected his wishes while I was a platform member.
Having said that, I DON'T agree with someone that makes those preferences Biblical. Like Abi said, either they are for all or they aren't for any.
I have to disagree with your analogy. I have a professional license that I would lose even if I did something outside my profession and it got back to the ethics committee. But this is not the same as a pastor creating a list of rules so that there are second class citizens in the church. Everyone in my profession is held to the same standard, I would assume this is the same for all who hold a professional license. The local church should not be creating classes of citizens by requiring those on the platform to live one way and yet Sunday school teachers and greeters are not held to the same standard.
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