Pastor Resigns?

[ReformedDave]

Originally Posted by Sister Alvear

money has been the downfall of many a person...

Isn't that the LOVE of money?

[freeatlast]

Now there's a testimony against centralized control of a
church by a single person.
Absolute power corrupts absolutely as they say.
This verbage "children of the devil", perhaps would better apply
to this man's son who abscounded the church's funds.
The church ought to confiscate the pastor's home because of his
dishonest dealings to partially recover some of their financial loss.
The district needs to revoke this man's license and headquarters
should barr him from ever pastoring in the organization ever again.
That's my verdict.

Where is this church's board of trustees?
Where is the system of checks and balances?
If there's that much money floating around, there needs to be
accountability. That is the minimum that the church board owes
to their congregation.
Perhaps they can be held dilitary in their own duty of safeguarding
the assets of this congregation.
I certainly hope the board has Director's & Officer's Liability Insurance.
They may end up needing it before the dust settles if they are called
in by attorneys to give account of their absence allowing the wolf to
guard the sheep (so to speak).

[Sam]

Originally Posted by freeatlast

...
The district needs to revoke this man's license and headquarters
should barr him from ever pastoring in the organization ever again.
That's my verdict.

Where is this church's board of trustees?
Where is the system of checks and balances?
...

The pastor's father who stepped in and then encouraged the congregation to "forgive" their pastor is a respected leader in the Ohio District. This goes pretty high into the political structure of the organization. I don't know how they can pull his license.

I don't know how the church is/was set up so I don't know about the trustees but if I remember correctly, this pastor forged someone's signature so it looks like trustees were unaware of what was going on.

There was one court action. If I remember correctly, the congregation took the pastor to court for not following the church's bylaws. The court threw that out because it was considered an internal dispute within the church. That makes sense to me. There should have been criminal charges filed against the pastor but that couldn't come until after a civil investigation and I would imagine that would be something pretty low on the local government's "to do" list.

[TRFrance]

Originally Posted by freeatlast

Where is this church's board of trustees?
Where is the system of checks and balances?
If there's that much money floating around, there needs to be
accountability. That is the minimum that the church board owes
to their congregation.
Perhaps they can be held dilitary in their own duty of safeguarding
the assets of this congregation.
I certainly hope the board has Director's & Officer's Liability Insurance.
They may end up needing it before the dust settles if they are called
in by attorneys to give account of their absence allowing the wolf to
guard the sheep (so to speak).

Frankly, I feel like every church should have its books audited by an outside accounting firm once a year, which should report their findings to the board, and the board should make these findings available to the church at an annual meeting.

That is true accountability.

I think anything less just leaves the door of possible temptation open to a a pastor or other church staff who have access to church funds. Failure to do so can lead to:

-the loss of money that belongs to God and His Kingdom,
- the inability of the church to fund evangelistic or missions programs (leading to potential souls not being reached)
- distrust of the church by church members who end up falling away as a result
-a poor reputation in the community, which prevents other lost souls from coming anywhere near that church (or any church).

I know in my church we have a strict safeguards in place when it comes to the handling of church finances ---our Pastor doesn't even have a key to the safe (and he likes it that way!).

Its not enough just so say "we trust the man of God". There must be a culture of accountability established in the church, so the church body feels confident that their hard earned donations are being handled honestly and responsibly.

I would love to get some further thoughts and input on this from some of the Pastors out there.

[Sam]

Originally Posted by TRFrance

Frankly, I feel like every church should have its books audited by an outside accounting firm once a year, which should report their findings to the board, and the board should make these findings available to the church at an annual meeting.

That is true accountability.

I think anything less just leaves the door of possible temptation open to a a pastor or other church staff who have access to church funds. Failure to do so can lead to:

-the loss of money that belongs to God and His Kingdom,
- the inability of the church to fund evangelistic or missions programs (leading to potential souls not being reached)
- distrust of the church by church members who end up falling away as a result
-a poor reputation in the community, which prevents other lost souls from coming anywhere near that church (or any church).

I know in my church we have a strict safeguards in place when it comes to the handling of church finances ---our Pastor doesn't even have a key to the safe (and he likes it that way!).

Its not enough just so say "we trust the man of God". There must be a culture of accountability established in the church, so the church body feels confident that their hard earned donations are being handled honestly and responsibly.

I would love to get some further thoughts and input on this from some of the Pastors out there.

Well, that sure won't fly with those who believe the tithe is the pastor's and he is unaccountable to everyone but God for how he handles that money.

[TRFrance]

Originally Posted by Sam

Well, that sure won't fly with those who believe the tithe is the pastor's and he is unaccountable to everyone but God for how he handles that money.

I guess it all begins with that initial mindset: Is the money in the church accounts the church's property or the Pastor's?

Once we establish that is it the church's property, there should be a mindset of accountability on the church staff and board. Pastors come and go, but the church will be there (hopefully) till Jesus comes.

Also If the treasurer, church secretary, and/or other possible money-handlers are all just the Pastor's relatives, that is also a problem. There have to be individuals who are not related to the pastor, and who take the job of financial accountability seriously. There should be at least 1 or 2 people in a position there who has basic business-related qualifications, such as being an accountant, an MBA, someone having several years of book-keeping experience, or something.

A true man of God would not/should not object to there being solid oversight of the church's finances. Its good for both him and the church.

[bishoph]

Friends,
While I do not in any way advocate the abuse of power from pastors or church leaders, I think that this story has been presented from a one-sided viewpoint, and is derived from a news source which is inherently biased towards religious institutions in general.

It is my understanding that In this particular case, said pastor did not act independently, (the board of the church was involved and approved the "investment") nor did his father say the quoted statement in the context that the paper has issued it. This pastor with the involvement and approval of the board, had made an investment in an energy program that was presented to many churches as a fundraising plan with incredible returns on the investments promised. I don't know of any church/ministry that doesn't need more funds to accomplish the vision of the local assembly and the great commission of the church in general. It should be noted that the board was involved and the church was informed, it was not until the deal went sower that some members decided to destroy the man that they had supported.

IMHO the pastor did not abuse his "power" but did make a very serious error in judgment even with the involvement of the board. The father BTW is no longer involved in the leadership of the district, as he is retired and lives in another state. He simply came in to bring stability to a church that respected him as the former pastor. His remarks were dealing with those who were trying to destroy a man who was being depicted as a crook who acted alone for his own personal benefit which was not the case.

We must always remember there are at least two sides to every story, and the truth is seldom what the media would have us to believe, when it comes to churches.

Originally Posted by bishoph

I just recieved a call that the Pastor (PC Jr)of Groveport, OH has resigned. Can anyone verify if this is true or just another rumor from the rumor mill. If so this is the second good sized church to be looking for a pastor in the Columbus, OH area.

Yes, Groveport is available. I know this because we received a call to try out for it, but we didn't feel to go to Ohio.

[CC1]

Originally Posted by bishoph

Friends,
While I do not in any way advocate the abuse of power from pastors or church leaders, I think that this story has been presented from a one-sided viewpoint, and is derived from a news source which is inherently biased towards religious institutions in general.

It is my understanding that In this particular case, said pastor did not act independently, (the board of the church was involved and approved the "investment") nor did his father say the quoted statement in the context that the paper has issued it. This pastor with the involvement and approval of the board, had made an investment in an energy program that was presented to many churches as a fundraising plan with incredible returns on the investments promised. I don't know of any church/ministry that doesn't need more funds to accomplish the vision of the local assembly and the great commission of the church in general. It should be noted that the board was involved and the church was informed, it was not until the deal went sower that some members decided to destroy the man that they had supported.

IMHO the pastor did not abuse his "power" but did make a very serious error in judgment even with the involvement of the board. The father BTW is no longer involved in the leadership of the district, as he is retired and lives in another state. He simply came in to bring stability to a church that respected him as the former pastor. His remarks were dealing with those who were trying to destroy a man who was being depicted as a crook who acted alone for his own personal benefit which was not the case.

We must always remember there are at least two sides to every story, and the truth is seldom what the media would have us to believe, when it comes to churches.

The two sides to this story seem pretty clear cut. Either the pastor did or did not forge someones signature. He either did or did not make that investment and obtain the second mortgage with the boards approval.

Those seem pretty easy to prove or disprove. The entire church board should know whether they agree to those two things or not.

[Jehoram]

Ethics is something we want everybody else to have.