Nothing, as long as we're not using them as the measure by which we judge God and whether or not HE was present, moving, etc. Of course, Paul did command that everything must be done decently and in order.
That's rather subjective, don't you think?
'Decently and in order' according to the Catholics is much different than how the Baptists define it.
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I've gone and done it now! I'm on Facebook!!!
Somehow I knew you were going to go after that post.
But... I have to agree... we have become such an emotion, chills, thrills, tingles & jingles based people.
We define the presence of God by these outward sights and, thereby, devalue the continual presence of God by even referring to some services (where the necessary requirement of 2 or 3 gathering together is met) as dull, dead or other such terminology.
My, my, my, my, my...
My Lord & God please forgive me for the times in the past that I have been in gatherings where you were, per your promise, in our midst and I deemed it dead because it did not line up to what I had earlier deemed as awesome and powerful. Help me to understand more completely your constant infilling and presence among your people when they are joined together in your name.
Yes, and that was my whole point: we try to define God's presence, God's working, etc. and even judge God by whether or not we were worked up into an emotional frenzy. I think that if we REALLY experienced the presence of God - the way Isaiah did in Isaiah 6 - our response would be nothing like we see in so many Pentecostal (and similar) churches.
And those define what he meant by 'decently and in order'? How so?
Decently is defined as:
in a seemly manner, decently
Hmmm.....not really sure what Paul meant by that, do you?
In order is defined as:
1. an arranging, arrangement
2. order
1. a fixed succession observing a fixed time
3. due or right order, orderly condition
4. the post, rank, or position which one holds in civic or other affairs
1. since this position generally depends on one's talents, experience, resources
1. character, fashion, quality, style
Wow!! Which definition did Paul mean when he said 'in order'? Do you know? Are you sure?
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I've gone and done it now! I'm on Facebook!!!
'Decently and in order' according to the Catholics is much different than how the Baptists define it.
Paul was refering to the operation of the gifts of the Spirit and prophets speaking out of turn etc etc....otherwise what is decent and orderly as far as a praise portion of a service is as you said subjective.
This was posted by someone as the first post in another thread and was clearly meant as a testimony or praise report:
"We had a tremendous, awesome move of God in our service yesterday! The annointing and presence of God was so incredibly strong. . .people were running, shouting, jumping, getting slain. . .people that needed victory claimed it and received it, backsliders were finding their way back to an altar of prayer. . it was just AWESOME!! I know God is a prayer answering God and He meets the needs of His people, but I still get amazed when He stops by right when we need Him the most and just takes over! I had a very special need and God completely ministered to it and me yesterday. I feel so exhilerated!!!
Anyone else have great services yesterday? Any praise reports you'd like to share?"
The joy being expressed is abundantly clear and I don't want to take that away from the person who expressed it in the above-quoted post. But there are several things in the post that raise some serious red flags!
"We had a tremendous, awesome move of God in our service yesterday!" So, what was Jesus doing yesterday that He wasn't doing all the other times He's been present (which is every time even two or three gather together in His name)? This notion of an "awesome move of God" appears to be suggesting something that is out of the ordinary and I find the notion of that disturbing because God's presence among His people is not (or shouldn't be) out of the ordinary. Further, if Jesus is present whenever even two or three are gathered together in His name (as He said He would), then what is God doing - or not doing - when He isn't moving awesomely?
"The annointing and presence of God was so incredibly strong" Are there times when it is weak?
"people were running, shouting, jumping, getting slain" Not that these are PROOF of God's annointing and presence - especially since God dwells in every Christian and, thus, does not cease to be present.
"people that needed victory claimed it and received it, backsliders were finding their way back to an altar of prayer" Isn't this what's supposed to be happening all the time? What is wrong in the Church today that we consider such things to be out of the ordinary?
"it was just AWESOME!!" Characterized by awe? Characterized by (reverential) fear? I sincerely doubt it since there was all that running, shouting, jumping, etc. going on. Now Isaiah knew what awesome was (see Isaiah 6)!
"I know God is a prayer answering God and He meets the needs of His people" Absolutely!
"but I still get amazed when He stops by right when we need Him the most and just takes over!" Stops right by? We make it sound as if God is not continually present within His people, as if God just drops in for a visit every once in a while when we "need Him" (as if to say there are times when we don't need Him. As for all that "running, shouting, jumping, getting slain," something sure took over but it wasn't God.
"I had a very special need and God completely ministered to it and me yesterday." Praise God! It's too bad we make it seem as if it's all about us and that God is there for us instead of us being there for Him - as if our needs are "very special" and the needs of others aren't.
"I feel so exhilerated!!!" That's nice but God's work in the life He has given me isn't dependent how I feel.
Chan, as often as I disagree with you, I must say I wholeheartedly agree with you on this post. Good post. Do I have permission to shorten your name now?
__________________ "Many people view their relationship with God like a "color by number" picture. It's easier to let someone else define the boundaries, tell them which blanks to fill in, and what color to use than it is for them to take a blank canvas and seek inspiration from the Source in order to paint their own masterpiece"
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