Does a NonFounding pastor have the right to decide whether

[pelathais]

The "founding pastor" language is used in the manual and suggested church constitution. That may be where Chosen got the phrase.

In that context the "founding pastor" is given more leeway than a successor. For this have any bearing, the local assembly itself must be affiliated or by some coincidence, be using the recommended church constitution.

Everything comes down to the by-laws of the local church. If you've been putting money into it but have never seen the by-laws or been to a business meeting, then you are probably in for some surprises. Every 501(c) not for profit corporation in the United States must have by-laws, a board and at least annual business meetings. Any church found skirting the law stands to loose its tax exempt status and face penalties. Often times the penalties are severe enough that the church looses it property.

[hometown guy]

Originally Posted by Chosen

the church stays UPCI or leaves without having a church vote???

yes yes yes yes yes yes unless your church bi laws state that you have to

[Joseph Miller]

NO ethical pastor would pull his church out of the UPCI without a vote.

[hometown guy]

Originally Posted by Joseph Miller

NO ethical pastor would pull his church out of the UPCI without a vote.

your wrong

[Joseph Miller]

Originally Posted by Joseph Miller

NO ethical pastor would pull his church out of the UPCI without a vote.

Originally Posted by hometown guy

your wrong

Nope. If the church wishes to stay in the UPCI then the pastor should have NO right to pull it out. If he wants to leave and the church don't then he should resign and turn in his license allowing the church to have their wishes.

[hometown guy]

Originally Posted by josh

A church is only "UPC" if it is affiliated. If it is, then the UPC requires a vote with the district superintendent invited to represent the UPC. He may send a stand-in.

If the church is not affiliated, then they have no say at all because the UPC is fundamentally a preacher's fellowship. The preacher can drop his license. If he doesn't go out under question very little changes.

EVERYONE NEEDS TO READ THIS POST

[pelathais]

Originally Posted by hometown guy

EVERYONE NEEDS TO READ THIS POST

The "affiliated" statement is absolutely correct. However in trying to answer Chosen's question, you've got to look at the variables as well.

Ever since the merger churches have been using the "Recommended Church Constitution" from the UPC Manual as the by-laws for the local assembly - even if the church was NOT affiliated. So it's likely that the hypothetical church Chosen is considering has this or some derivative form as its by-laws.

It all comes down to the local church's by-laws.

And Joseph Miller is correct. No ethical pastor would pull his church out of affiliation without a vote. He stands to lose the church property, his income and face an audit like you wouldn't believe if he doesn't follow the by-laws.

Your by-laws can say just about anything you want them to say. It's just you have to follow those by-laws or risk the 501(c) protection.

[MissBrattified]

If the church is affiliated with the UPCI, and the members want it that way, then I would think the pastor should allow the members to have a part in any decision, whether the by-laws allow for it or not.

If the church isn't affiliated, but the pastor is, then it is the pastor's decision whether or not he remains licensed with the UPCI. Obviously, he should inform the church of his decision, and probably share his reasons for doing so. His decision does affect the members, even if the church isn't affiliated. (Camps, rallies, missions, conferences, fellowship, etc.)

In general, I think it is wise for a pastor to communicate with the congregation. That doesn't mean that he needs to ask their permission.

As for the "founding pastor" part...I really don't care about that at all. (As a member.) I care what my current pastor has to say about things. I don't attend church because of who founded our church. I attend it because I like the present leadership.

Originally Posted by Chosen

the church stays UPCI or leaves without having a church vote???

In the church I used to attend the pastor had final say on everything, and controlled everything...so I would say Yes in that one case.

The church is affiliated, and the pastor has UPCI lic.

There ae bylaws but I don't remember there being anything in them addressing this type of situation, so waht happens then, who gets to set the rules??

The Dist Super I understand would be a witness as he will probably bring someone else with him but he has no authority to set rules if not in bylaws...does he?

I have been in a couple of churches with a founding pastor and unless they do domething egregious it is almost impossible to kick them out and they judge and jury.

No I am not on the church board

Boom why is this thread dumb , I ask if i don't know, if it bothers you or hits too close to home for some reason move along

Boom we are all learned enough to understand many ministers put the flock in the top 5 but not necessarily #1, and many push their personal agenda regardless of the flock, thats reality not fantasy

Thank you Palathais for your input

I have heard that the pastor has already made a definite staement which way he was going to go which made me wonder if he could do that without a vote and that is why I am asking the question because the church is split on the issue