Vaccine Mandate is First Purge.

[Jito463]

Originally Posted by jediwill83

Try Sept 11th...its basically a state sponsored stirring up of negative emotions and plenty justification for our supposed retaliation...and our unforgiveness.


Supposed to forgive our enemies right?


You think right wing or left wingers are more suportive of the military industrial complex?


Which side is more religious?


Ever see those guys comment about having forgiveness on Sept 11th?


Nope.


Its all saver rattling and "We will never forget."

Sorry, I don't see it. Never forget doesn't mean never forgive. We've never forgotten Pearl Harbor, it doesn't mean we didn't forgive the Japanese. We've never forgotten WWII, it doesn't mean we didn't forgive the Germans. We can forgive and still remember.

If a man punches you in the nose, you can forgive him. But the next time he approaches you, will you just forget that he ever punched you and give him another chance to do so again, or will you keep your distance so he doesn't have another opportunity?

[jediwill83]

Originally Posted by Jito463

Sorry, I don't see it. Never forget doesn't mean never forgive. We've never forgotten Pearl Harbor, it doesn't mean we didn't forgive the Japanese. We've never forgotten WWII, it doesn't mean we didn't forgive the Germans. We can forgive and still remember.

If a man punches you in the nose, you can forgive him. But the next time he approaches you, will you just forget that he ever punched you and give him another chance to do so again, or will you keep your distance so he doesn't have another opportunity?

Those statements are never tied into any mention of forgiving out enemy...cause fogiveness is bad for business.

[Esaias]

Forgiveness is conditioned upon repentance.

[jediwill83]

Originally Posted by Esaias

Forgiveness is conditioned upon repentance.

....yep...cause thats totally in scrupture.

[Esaias]

Originally Posted by jediwill83

....yep...cause thats totally in scrupture.

Does God forgive without any of us repenting?

Note: on another thread I believe there is a discussion about "a sin not unto death" which talked about our intercessory role for our brothers in which it may be that we can pray for them if we see them commit a sin in ignorance. So let's keep that in mind.

But here is teaching on forgiveness:

Luke 13:2-5 KJV
And Jesus answering said unto them, Suppose ye that these Galilaeans were sinners above all the Galilaeans, because they suffered such things? [3] I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish. [4] Or those eighteen, upon whom the tower in Siloam fell, and slew them, think ye that they were sinners above all men that dwelt in Jerusalem? [5] I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish.

Here Jesus says repentance is REQUIRED to escape destruction. Thus, repentance is a condition of forgiveness of sins.

Matthew 18:23-35 KJV
Therefore is the kingdom of heaven likened unto a certain king, which would take account of his servants. [24] And when he had begun to reckon, one was brought unto him, which owed him ten thousand talents. [25] But forasmuch as he had not to pay, his lord commanded him to be sold, and his wife, and children, and all that he had, and payment to be made. [26] The servant therefore fell down, and worshipped him, saying, Lord, have patience with me, and I will pay thee all. [27] Then the lord of that servant was moved with compassion, and loosed him, and forgave him the debt. [28] But the same servant went out, and found one of his fellowservants, which owed him an hundred pence: and he laid hands on him, and took him by the throat, saying, Pay me that thou owest. [29] And his fellowservant fell down at his feet, and besought him, saying, Have patience with me, and I will pay thee all. [30] And he would not: but went and cast him into prison, till he should pay the debt. [31] So when his fellowservants saw what was done, they were very sorry, and came and told unto their lord all that was done. [32] Then his lord, after that he had called him, said unto him, O thou wicked servant, I forgave thee all that debt, because thou desiredst me: [33] Shouldest not thou also have had compassion on thy fellowservant, even as I had pity on thee? [34] And his lord was wroth, and delivered him to the tormentors, till he should pay all that was due unto him. [35] So likewise shall my heavenly Father do also unto you, if ye from your hearts forgive not every one his brother their trespasses.

Here forgiveness is tied to repentance in both cases. This teaching comes immediately after this:

Matthew 18:21-22 KJV
Then came Peter to him, and said, Lord, how oft shall my brother sin against me, and I forgive him? till seven times? [22] Jesus saith unto him, I say not unto thee, Until seven times: but, Until seventy times seven.

Jesus taught us to forgive, and His illustration involved forgiving the repentant. Another account of the same teaching reveals more detail:

Luke 17:3-4 KJV
Take heed to yourselves: If thy brother trespass against thee, rebuke him; and if he repent, forgive him. [4] And if he trespass against thee seven times in a day, and seven times in a day turn again to thee, saying, I repent; thou shalt forgive him.

Notice we are to "take heed" about this: we are to rebuke the one who does us wrong, and IF HE REPENT we are to forgive him, regardless of how repetitive things may seem to get.

If forgiveness were unconditional, then everybody would automatically be saved. God conditions forgiveness upon repentance. We aren't nicer than Jesus. Forgiveness in Scripture is always tied to repentance in some fashion. That is to say, I can't find a teaching in Scripture where God requires anyone to forgive the unrepentant.

Perhaps you can show us where God forgives us without us repenting? Or where God commands us to forgive unilaterally and unconditionally?

[Esaias]

Also - forgiving those who trespass against you is not about national policy in time of war. It's about personal interactions. It is not about warfare.

[Nicodemus1968]

Originally Posted by Esaias

Also - forgiving those who trespass against you is not about national policy in time of war. It's about personal interactions. It is not about warfare.

I’m not understanding this post? Can you elaborate please?

[jediwill83]

Originally Posted by Esaias

Also - forgiving those who trespass against you is not about national policy in time of war. It's about personal interactions. It is not about warfare.

Perhaps you can inform us of the New Testament doctrine of the national policy on war?

[Esaias]

Originally Posted by jediwill83

Perhaps you can inform us of the New Testament doctrine of the national policy on war?

But he answered and said, It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God.
(Mat 4:4)


Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil. For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.
(Mat 5:17-18)

From this we see that the New Testament upholds the authority of previously given Scripture.

Here is God's Law on the "national policy on war":

And the LORD spake unto Moses in the wilderness of Sinai, in the tabernacle of the congregation, on the first day of the second month, in the second year after they were come out of the land of Egypt, saying, Take ye the sum of all the congregation of the children of Israel, after their families, by the house of their fathers, with the number of their names, every male by their polls; From twenty years old and upward, all that are able to go forth to war in Israel: thou and Aaron shall number them by their armies.
(Num 1:1-3)

Military service is 20 years and up.

And if ye go to war in your land against the enemy that oppresseth you, then ye shall blow an alarm with the trumpets; and ye shall be remembered before the LORD your God, and ye shall be saved from your enemies.
(Num 10:9)

War must include a nation "alarm" for the purpose of being "remembered before the LORD" - this means war requires an appeal to God for His Divine protection. Going to war without a sincere appeal to God is sinful and offers no promise of Providential help.

When thou goest out to battle against thine enemies, and seest horses, and chariots, and a people more than thou, be not afraid of them: for the LORD thy God is with thee, which brought thee up out of the land of Egypt. And it shall be, when ye are come nigh unto the battle, that the priest shall approach and speak unto the people, And shall say unto them, Hear, O Israel, ye approach this day unto battle against your enemies: let not your hearts faint, fear not, and do not tremble, neither be ye terrified because of them; For the LORD your God is he that goeth with you, to fight for you against your enemies, to save you. And the officers shall speak unto the people, saying, What man is there that hath built a new house, and hath not dedicated it? let him go and return to his house, lest he die in the battle, and another man dedicate it. And what man is he that hath planted a vineyard, and hath not yet eaten of it? let him also go and return unto his house, lest he die in the battle, and another man eat of it. And what man is there that hath betrothed a wife, and hath not taken her? let him go and return unto his house, lest he die in the battle, and another man take her. And the officers shall speak further unto the people, and they shall say, What man is there that is fearful and fainthearted? let him go and return unto his house, lest his brethren's heart faint as well as his heart. And it shall be, when the officers have made an end of speaking unto the people, that they shall make captains of the armies to lead the people.
(Deu 20:1-9)

When a man hath taken a new wife, he shall not go out to war, neither shall he be charged with any business: but he shall be free at home one year, and shall cheer up his wife which he hath taken.
(Deu 24:5)

Going to war requires a prior admonition to trust in the LORD from God's ministers. As well as a reminder that the following persons are exempt from military service (in fact they are EXCLUDED from military service):
1. One who just got his own place to live.
2. One who just planted his vineyard.
3. One who got betrothed but has not yet consummated the marriage.
4. Anyone who is afraid and fainthearted (not ready and willing to go to war). - This last one rules out any forced draft as sinful, by the way.

When thou comest nigh unto a city to fight against it, then proclaim peace unto it. And it shall be, if it make thee answer of peace, and open unto thee, then it shall be, that all the people that is found therein shall be tributaries unto thee, and they shall serve thee. And if it will make no peace with thee, but will make war against thee, then thou shalt besiege it: And when the LORD thy God hath delivered it into thine hands, thou shalt smite every male thereof with the edge of the sword: But the women, and the little ones, and the cattle, and all that is in the city, even all the spoil thereof, shalt thou take unto thyself; and thou shalt eat the spoil of thine enemies, which the LORD thy God hath given thee. Thus shalt thou do unto all the cities which are very far off from thee, which are not of the cities of these nations.
(Deu 20:10-15)

Except for the "seven Canaanite nations" (which were to be entirely eliminated ie genocided by Divine decree), war requires that we first offer peace and an opportunity to be tributary to us. If the opponents refuse, then every male is to be exterminated, and the rest of the location becomes spoil.

When thou shalt besiege a city a long time, in making war against it to take it, thou shalt not destroy the trees thereof by forcing an axe against them: for thou mayest eat of them, and thou shalt not cut them down (for the tree of the field is man's life) to employ them in the siege: Only the trees which thou knowest that they be not trees for meat, thou shalt destroy and cut them down; and thou shalt build bulwarks against the city that maketh war with thee, until it be subdued.
(Deu 20:19-20)

In a protracted campaign, we are not allowed to go "scorched earth" (literally) in regard to the food producing trees in the area. Our purpose is to win a war, not exterminate all possibility of living in a location.

I suppose I could go on but this discussion really isn't about national military policy from a theonomic perspective, it is about forgiveness and the connection(s) to repentance.

[Esaias]

Originally Posted by Nicodemus1968

I’m not understanding this post? Can you elaborate please?

I'm saying the "forgive men their tresspasses (against you)" instruction isn't about national policy with adversary nations. It is about individual relations with our neighbour. It isn't dealing with war (I mean, real, actual, swords and shields or guns and bombs war between nations etc).

Just like the commandment "thou shalt not kill" is dealing with our personal relations with our neighbours, not war (or judicial sentencing).