1Corinthians: Instructions for the Church

[Tithesmeister]

Originally Posted by good samaritan

I certainly believe it is inspired but it must be properly understood in the context it was written. I am not certain, but I feel like the church in Corinth had a specific issue involving women who were being disorderly. Generally, women didn't likely receive the same emphasis on education as men.

I agree that context is crucial. However, I disagree that this is possibly an educational issue. It it were true that education were the issue, I believe Paul would have said “let the ignorant (or uneducated) be silent in church”. That’s not what he said. He defined his instructions according to gender, not according to level of education. After all, men were very likely susceptible to having different levels of education in Biblical times (are these not Galileans?) Paul was highly educated, while the fishermen were not so much.

Another thing is that the language is plain. It’s not like Paul is speaking in riddles here. He plainly says what he means, in my opinion. I think you may be overthinking the interpretation. Aaand it seems to be harmonious with scripture (to me at least).

Originally Posted by good samaritan

Imagine trying to teach small children Sunday School and college and career-age students together. Either you are going to go over the children's head or you are going to bore the others with things that are too elementary. During the church assembling together women were to be quite and listen. If they didn't understand they should simply ask their husbands at home, rather than holding up the discussion until they had clarity.

Perhaps we should allow the women to teach the children (which IS in harmony with scripture).

[Tithesmeister]

QUOTE=good samaritan;1613365]The Greek word for servant is the same Greek word for deacon in 1 Timothy 3.
[/QUOTE]

It certainly has a different meaning. Allow me to show an important difference.

1 Timothy 3
[10] And let these also first be proved; then let them use the office of a deacon, being found blameless.
[11] Even so must their wives be grave, not slanderers, sober, faithful in all things.
[12] Let the deacons be the husbands of one wife, ruling their children and their own houses well.
[13] For they that have used the office of a deacon well purchase to themselves a good degree, and great boldness in the faith which is in Christ Jesus.

It appears that the deacons were to be married to a wife. Quite different from the scenario that you seem to believe.

QUOTE=good samaritan;1613365]
Additionally:

Romans 16:2
That ye receive her in the Lord, as becometh saints, and that ye assist her in whatsoever business she hath need of you: for she hath been a succourer of many, and of myself also.

It appears to me that this lady was in a ministerial/leadership role to had been given this commendation to the church in Rome. It doesn't seem like she is going to be taught while she sits silently by.[/QUOTE]

Being a minister or a servant were often synonymous in the Bible.

Matthew 8
[14] And when Jesus was come into Peter's house, he saw his wife's mother laid, and sick of a fever.
[15] And he touched her hand, and the fever left her: and she arose, and ministered unto them.

Peters mother in law was not preaching to the men. She was likely serving them food and drinks and possibly washing their feet.

[Amanah]

My thoughts this morning on women being silent in church.

I think it's not that woman can't speak in church, they can be used in the gifts, in testimonials, and in teaching other women and children, but, if women are to be submissive and subject to their husbands, should they then be in an authoritative position over other women's husbands? I think not. It would be disorderly.

[Tithesmeister]

Originally Posted by Amanah

My thoughts this morning on women being silent in church.

I think it's not that woman can't speak in church, they can be used in the gifts, in testimonials, and in teaching other women and children, but, if women are to be submissive and subject to their husbands, should they then be in an authoritative position over other women's husbands? I think not. It would be disorderly.

Thank you for your thoughts. I am inclined to agree with you. It seems sooo reasonable. It also is much more politically correct. I wanted to agree just to be nice.

However . . .

There’s this.

[34] Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience, as also saith the law.
[35] And if they will learn any thing, let them ask their husbands at home: for it is a shame for women to speak in the church.

It is not permitted. It is in fact a shame.

So I’m going to stick with the text. I sincerely hope you aren’t offended.

Because you know, if we just change the portion that we don’t agree with?

Where do we stop?

[Amanah]

Originally Posted by Tithesmeister

Thank you for your thoughts. I am inclined to agree with you. It seems sooo reasonable. It also is much more politically correct. I wanted to agree just to be nice.

However . . .

There’s this.

[34] Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience, as also saith the law.
[35] And if they will learn any thing, let them ask their husbands at home: for it is a shame for women to speak in the church.

It is not permitted. It is in fact a shame.

So I’m going to stick with the text. I sincerely hope you aren’t offended.

Because you know, if we just change the portion that we don’t agree with?

Where do we stop?

I'm not offended in the least.
Does your wife remain silent the whole time she is at church?
Are there any Sunday school classes with female teachers?
Any female greeters or choir members?
Do any females in your church ever speak at all while in church?

[Tithesmeister]

Originally Posted by Amanah

I'm not offended in the least.
Does your wife remain silent the whole time she is at church?
Are there any Sunday school classes with female teachers?
Any female greeters or choir members?
Do any females in your church ever speak at all while in church?

Our church is guilty on all charges. The point of this thread is not that I’m right, but that we somehow believe we are right, in spite of contradicting scripture. In this case concerning women speaking in church.

I will say that this issue in itself is the low hanging fruit, and is not even one of the main ones that concern me.

What about preachers that “break out speaking in tongues” with no expectation of an interpretation? Are they edifying themselves as Paul indicates in this passage? It seems to be the case (to me at least).

Really, the issue is that we tend to emphasize certain passages, while diminishing the value of others. Some we even ignore completely. I guess it’s just human nature?

[Amanah]

Originally Posted by Tithesmeister

Our church is guilty on all charges. The point of this thread is not that I’m right, but that we somehow believe we are right, in spite of contradicting scripture. In this case concerning women speaking in church.

I will say that this issue in itself is the low hanging fruit, and is not even one of the main ones that concern me.

What about preachers that “break out speaking in tongues” with no expectation of an interpretation? Are they edifying themselves as Paul indicates in this passage? It seems to be the case (to me at least).

Really, the issue is that we tend to emphasize certain passages, while diminishing the value of others. Some we even ignore completely. I guess it’s just human nature?

It's not a bad idea to examine how we do things.

[jediwill83]

One thing Ive been discovering lately is the priestess model that the pagan temples used during Biblical times. In the early NT church age, these groups of believers would be*from an outside perspective* heavily outmatched by already established and entrenched pagan temples. These temples would use women to spread word of whatever goddess or god she would be promoting in a heavily evangelistic manner even down to how she wore her hair. Old pagans become new believers in Christ who now need teaching under a totally new leadership and doctrine model. They had to weed out old habits,beliefs and mindsets and they were wise in giving instruction in its application. It wasnt due to any supposed female inferiority. You think women cant band together, teach, lead and spread ideas? The church was being fought on this front by pagan religious leaders and worshippers who were products of that very effective system. It wasnt the lack of education...of course they were educated for that time. They would have had to be to transmit thoughts and ideas into spoken and written words and to also understand and to do this in probably multiple languages? *pshaw*


They werent just championing a new usurper in a new dawn of pagan patheon expansion...they had to burn down that entire model and start at the beginning of something completely different.



They were no longer slaves, temple prostitutes and or oracles but now the Bride of Christ and they would not serve the Groom as they served their former masters....lot to unlearn first.


Anways...just some thoughts about the context of the time I just wanted to share...maybe nothing.

[good samaritan]

Judges 4:4-5
4......And Deborah, a prophetess, the wife of Lapidoth, judged Israel at that time.
5......And she dwelt under the palm tree of Deborah between Ramah and Bethel in mount Ephraim: and the children of Israel came up to her for judgment.

Generally, women were not usually leaders in Israel, but in some cases, God did use them in leadership roles that required them to speak in the congregation. God would not cause women to do something that is sinful. Also, I know of several testimonies of pioneers in 20th-century Pentecostalism that women began churches in my local area for lack of men doing it.

[Amanah]

Opposing viewpoints

DKB on women ministers:
https://youtu.be/BXQVZmBTyZA

.

GJ on women ministers:
https://youtu.be/TXE28e9fY8k

.