Show Me the Money

[crakjak]

Originally Posted by J-Roc

On various occassions I have seen the Elder (by his written word) draw this line in the sand that creates a chasm between clergy and laity...in his language, I never see the attempt to draw closer together the clergy and laity but rather to make sure the line of demarcation is vividly seen.

And of which clearly defies scriptural precedent and the example set by Jesus himself. Jesus said he came to serve not to be served, he clearly related to those to whom he ministered.

[crakjak]

Originally Posted by Rico

Ok, Lemme see if I have this right. It's the pastor's fault for not winning the guy over, it's the pastor's fault the guy doubted the pastor's integrity, it's the pastor's fault, it's the pastor's fault...............ooooooooooooooooooooooooooook.

Just making an assumation based on the facts as they are known, sir!

[J-Roc]

Originally Posted by Steve Epley

Well honestly there is line placed by God and not I.

How so, please elaborate (and some biblical support provides comfort)?

[crakjak]

Originally Posted by Steve Epley

Well honestly there is line placed by God and not I. Does it make me higher-better-smarter-more spiritual?????????? NOPE!!!!!!!!! I pastor saints who no doubt are smarter-better-and more spiritual than myself. I pastor some elderly women that I blush in their walk with God. The office makes the difference NOT the man. I hold an office the Holy Ghost placed me in as the overseer of the flock. That is God's plan.
As far winning the thief over who had been living a lie for years acting as though he was a supporter of the work of God with his tithes a man who lives a lie for years hardly ever changes this man died under the judgment of God shortly after this episode. I hope he fixed everything. But in general it has been my experience the folks who fuss the most about finance in a church are folks of this guys elk. THEY themselves are dishonest thus they judge everyone by their dishonesty. Have there been preachers who have misused funds and been dishonest? Sadly yes but I have watched through the years and eventually God fires them.

Maybe he was a thief and an ungodly man, just maybe God place him there to buffet the pastor into a more Godly attitude. Personally, whether the man was a thief or not is irrelevant, the pastor failed the leadership of Jesus test. Based only on the facts presented in your post. If the man was that bad, why even give him the satisfaction of the circus performance?

[J-Roc]

Originally Posted by crakjak

And of which clearly defies scriptural precedent and the example set by Jesus himself. Jesus said he came to serve not to be served, he clearly related to those to whom he ministered.

I'm very glad you were perceptive and picked up on what I implied, that is, that the line I referred to was based on a relational level...I think Elder Epley thought I meant something else.

[J-Roc]

Originally Posted by crakjak

Maybe he was a thief and an ungodly man, just maybe God place him there to buffet the pastor into a more Godly attitude. Personally, whether the man was a thief or not is irrelevant, the pastor failed the leadership of Jesus test. Based only on the facts presented in your post. If the man was that bad, why even give him the satisfaction of the circus performance?

You possess the qualities of a leader...you are very perceptive and make a great addition to any church leadership team or board of trustees.

[BoredOutOfMyMind]

Originally Posted by crakjak

And of which clearly defies scriptural precedent and the example set by Jesus himself. Jesus said he came to serve not to be served, he clearly related to those to whom he ministered.

Somebody also supported him for three years....


I personally could care less what our Pastor does with my Tithe and Offering. He does not take a salary at this time and has bolstered the church with his own funds for the last year he has been here.

[Pragmatist]

Originally Posted by Alter Ego

It is so hilarious to hear some posters who despise the idea of accountability in their lives call for ministerial accountability. Of course, I do not mean you specifically. I think the saints should show their W-2's and checking and savings account balances to the church board as well. It would be a good way for them to show they believe in accountability.

By ministerial accountability do you mean of the pastor's personal funds or church funds? I couldn't care less what the pastor spends his personal funds (tithes or salary) on, but if the church is a non-profit organization, the law requires full disclosure of the church's money.

[Jehoram]

Originally Posted by Pragmatist

By ministerial accountability do you mean of the pastor's personal funds or church funds? I couldn't care less what the pastor spends his personal funds (tithes or salary) on, but if the church is a non-profit organization, the law requires full disclosure of the church's money.

Again, I believe in full disclosure of church finances. I also believe that it would be best if the pastor appointed a trusted advisory panel to account for all monies. No pastor in their right mind wants to worry about the church finances. Who wouldn't want someone else to handle all of the gory details?

I just think that his personal finances are off limits to the prying eyes of gossiping busybodies. I also reject the notion that they should take some weird vow of poverty.

[Pragmatist]

Originally Posted by Alter Ego

Again, I believe in full disclosure of church finances. I also believe that it would be best if the pastor appointed a trusted advisory panel to account for all monies. No pastor in their right mind wants to worry about the church finances. Who wouldn't want someone else to handle all of the gory details?

I just think that his personal finances are off limits to the prying eyes of gossiping busybodies. I also reject the notion that they should take some weird vow of poverty.

Agreed. His personal finances should be off limits and he has every right to live comfortably. I can't believe anyone would have the gall to ask about personal finances, but then again...