7th Day Sabbath not for New Testament believers - Page 19

Esaias · #**181** 03-30-2019, 06:13 PM

A lot of Christians "don't keep Halloween." Why not?

Because they understand it is a pagan HOLY DAY, a religious day dedicated to the dead (anciently called Samhain). The Roman Catholics adopted it, calling it All Hallows' (Saints') Day, with the evening part beginning the day called All Hallow's Eve, or "Halloween" for short.

Now, only catholics and full blown pagans think in their minds that this is a "holy" day. Yet, who in their right mind is gonna dress the kids up in costumes, go trick or treating, put out a jack o'lantern and give out candy, and turn around and say "I don't keep/do/celebrate/observe Halloween"? Who in their right mind would take such a claim seriously?

Esaias · #**182** 03-30-2019, 06:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Esaias

A lot of Christians "don't keep Halloween." Why not?

Because they understand it is a pagan HOLY DAY, a religious day dedicated to the dead (anciently called Samhain). The Roman Catholics adopted it, calling it All Hallows' (Saints') Day, with the evening part beginning the day called All Hallow's Eve, or "Halloween" for short.

Now, only catholics and full blown pagans think in their minds that this is a "holy" day. Yet, who in their right mind is gonna dress the kids up in costumes, go trick or treating, put out a jack o'lantern and give out candy, and turn around and say "I don't keep/do/celebrate/observe Halloween"? Who in their right mind would take such a claim seriously?

Further, many avoid doing "alternative" celebrations on Halloween in order to avoid the pagan associations. They, and everyone else (whether they agree or disagree with the propriety of doing Halloween) all are capable of understanding what "observing" a day or "keeping" a day involves.

But somehow, Sunday keeping is a whole different category altogether? Following different rules? Please, let's not kid ourselves.

Tithesmeister · #**183** 03-30-2019, 06:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Esaias

Do you have any comments or reaction to the Scriptures I posted?

Can you explain how the passage you posted means "we don't have to remember the sabbath day to keep it holy"? That is what you basically intended, right? Or were you trying to say something completely different?

As for gardening, and land Sabbaths, weren't you the one arguing that such rules only apply within the boundaries of Palestine? What do you think, do land Sabbaths apply outside of the original Promised Land? If they do, how are they calculated? Do we have a way to identify when a genuine Biblical land Sabbath is supposed to occur?

If you don't think they apply outside of Palestine then the issue would seem to be moot.

I also am pretty sure you don't believe they apply under the New Covenant anyway, regardless of location. Correct? So then what is the actual point of the question? Trying to find some way to say " Ah ha! You are a hypocrite because you don't follow the commandment the way I think you should even though I don't think anyone should follow it that way anyway"? Is that not what you already tried before, with your asking me how many homosexuals I had stoned by now?

Generally, you are correct about what I believe. However, you are wrong about my intentions. I was really wanting to know how much you tried to follow the law and at what point you think you’ve done enough.

I don’t believe you are a hypocrite. I think you are sincere. I think you are sincerely wrong, but it doesn’t bother me that you observe the sabbath. I think it would be a rather boring world if everyone believed exactly what I do.

I am a little bit puzzled as to why you believe that the covenant (deal) that God made with Israel (the Jews) for a particular place (the promised land) for a limited time frame, would apply to you. It has never been a covenant with Gentiles. It was with and for the Jews. It was mostly specific to the promised land.

But the part that really seems odd to me is that it is no longer valid for the Jews. It certainly doesn’t apply to me. It expired roughly two thousand years before I was born. Why would I want to try to include myself in a covenant that was not for Gentiles, for a land that I have never been to, and for a time that was about to wither and die two thousand years ago, especially when I have been given a new better covenant. I guess I just don’t get it.

Could you explain to me in a few words why you think this deal is relevant to you when even the Jews aren’t offered this deal anymore?

The coupon has expired brother. It never applied to Christians or Gentiles. I’m not even trying to be argumentative, I’m just calling it like I see it.

Oh, and I don’t remember asking how many homosexuals you have stoned. Could you possibly refresh my memory?

Esaias · #**184** 03-30-2019, 06:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mfblume

Gendering to Bondage is simple to understand. That's bondage associated with law which shows the bondage earlier in the same chapter makes law the elements of the worl. And the term is again used in the same book here and same context, associated Again with law.

Gal 5:1....Stand fast therefore in the liberty wherewith Christ hath made us free, and be not entangled again with the yoke of bondage.

..2....Behold, I Paul say unto you, that if ye be circumcised, Christ shall profit you nothing.

1. Who said anyone needs to be circumcised?

2. Please explain how obeying the Fourth Commandment is "bondage"?

3. How is obedience to God "bondage"?

4. How is it that Christ came to free us from obeying the commandment of God? To be free from obedience is to be in bondage to sin, according to Romans 6:11-21).

Are you going to again resort to claiming that remembering the Sabbath day to keep it holy, not doing our ordinary work on that day, is in fact not obeying the commandment, but that not remembering the sabbath day to keep it holy and doing whatever work we want on that day is somehow obeying the commandment, as long as we're Spirit filled Christians?

Esaias · #**185** 03-30-2019, 06:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tithesmeister

I am a little bit puzzled as to why you believe that the covenant (deal) that God made with Israel (the Jews) for a particular place (the promised land) for a limited time frame, would apply to you. It has never been a covenant with Gentiles. It was with and for the Jews. It was mostly specific to the promised land.

Please explain this. The Sinaitic Covenant applies to all of us insofar as "what is written beforehand was written for our instruction." But you seem to be saying you think *I* believe the Old, Sinaitic Covenant is applicable and in force, for me or someone else?

Is that correct? I honestly don't know how to reply to that. My first inclination is to suggest Hooked on Phonics, but seriously, I do not understand how you can be so off base as to conclude that? I mean, it boggles my mind, seriously. Have you actually read anything I posted?

mfblume · #**186** 03-30-2019, 06:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Esaias

So a person who celebrates Dec 25 with the whole rigamarole, but who "has nothing on their mind that the day is holy", isn't keeping Christmas?

Okie dokie, if you say so.

Well, actually, no, that's not rational at all. Like trinitarians who believe in a literal three man God Squad saying "I don't believe in three gods"...

Is only a "holy" day to folks like catholics and mainline denominational people who think God requires them to keep it, as you feel God requires you to keep sabbath. The questing is whether a person feels God requires us to keep and given day. That should have been obvious. You're way off on this issue, brother.

Tithesmeister · #**187** 03-30-2019, 06:43 PM

Esaias,

I believe that ALL of the law was considered commandments from God. MANY were not individually recanted. So why the sabbath? Why not the many others?

Tithesmeister · #**188** 03-30-2019, 06:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Esaias

Please explain this. The Sinaitic Covenant applies to all of us insofar as "what is written beforehand was written for our instruction." But you seem to be saying you think *I* believe the Old, Sinaitic Covenant is applicable and in force, for me or someone else?

Is that correct? I honestly don't know how to reply to that. My first inclination is to suggest Hooked on Phonics, but seriously, I do not understand how you can be so off base as to conclude that? I mean, it boggles my mind, seriously. Have you actually read anything I posted?

Do you not believe the Ten Commandments are part of the Mosaic law/Sinaitic covenant?

mfblume · #**189** 03-30-2019, 06:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Esaias

I pray daily, too, and do not thereby conclude every day is made holy because of it. As did Sabbath keepers throughout the Bible. So, no, I'm not reaching. You, however, ARE reaching in your attempts to avoid the obvious reality: you keep Sunday as a set day dedicated to the corporate worship of God, reading and teaching of Scripture, corporate prayers, etc.

Otherwise, you wouldn't have church every Sunday. Don't you think it is strange that you have church every Sunday? I mean, WHY SUNDAY?

"Everybody expects church on Sunday, so we go along with the world's ideas and expectations of the proper time to gather for the worship of God, even though it is well documented to come straight out of pagan Mithra-cult and Sol Invictus worship and catholicism." Is that it?

Why not Saturday? "Oh, nope, people might associate us erroneously as being sabbath keepers"? It's okay to coincidentally match your worship to pagans and catholics, but not to the worshippers of Jehovah as recorded in the Bible?

Doesn't that strike you as... curious?

I do not believe God requires us to do what we can for church on a Sunday. It could be on another day of the week. If Sunday was from me tomorrow, then we will simply would not even consider another day of the week. We've held Bible studies on a certain day in the middle of the week consistently, and we don't consider that anymore holy or any less holy than we do a Sunday.

Sunday's just convenient and people were used to doing it then. Maybe the people who started this Sunday thing thought that it was holy. But the fact remains that the apostles did meet on the first day of the week regularly. Not because it was Holy by any means though. Years ago I told people that Sunday was not a Sabbath, and they were surprised. And I explained to them that it's not a Sabbath. So, some people do think it's holy, but that's not me.

mfblume · #**190** 03-30-2019, 06:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Esaias

1. Who said anyone needs to be circumcised?

2. Please explain how obeying the Fourth Commandment is "bondage"?

3. How is obedience to God "bondage"?

4. How is it that Christ came to free us from obeying the commandment of God? To be free from obedience is to be in bondage to sin, according to Romans 6:11-21).

Are you going to again resort to claiming that remembering the Sabbath day to keep it holy, not doing our ordinary work on that day, is in fact not obeying the commandment, but that not remembering the sabbath day to keep it holy and doing whatever work we want on that day is somehow obeying the commandment, as long as we're Spirit filled Christians?

I will answer these this week. Paul, not me, says the law genders to bondage. I will explain how.