Judged By A Bearded Man

[Wilsonwas]

Fixing my post - no one could tell mine from EBs

Re: Judged By A Bearded Man
[B]Quote:
Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa View Post
EBBut Hitler was taken out by his own hand. Not every Jew, or Christian made it into a boxcar. The rulers as Nebuchadnezzar, and Cyrus would make Hitler look like Little Britches in the first reader. Antiochus Epiphanes, and Nahum who slew the Israelites. God placed them, and God removed them. It is up to us on how we deal with the situation. Also these leaders whether good, bad, or ugly, have a CHOICE whether or not they continue to conduct themselves contrary to God.

- Does not answer my question...if the ruler or pastor is off the biblical grid looking to push an evil thing, or more correctly (usually) in the case of a pastor, an extra biblical thing, are we bound by the fact that "God sets authority in power' to follow it. I think not. In the case of someone so derailed as song book tossing whack-job I DID RUN INTO - I am within biblical rights to walk out mid sermon, and return the book in his general direction. This pastor pontif crud is nuts.

EB -In the case of a preacher wanting me to grow a beard, or shave a beard I have worn since I was a toddler.
EB is now narrating my life, please ignore the factual error, as I said nothing about having my beard as a toddler. i HAVE had it for many years - and the bulk of those at three different UPCI churches - where it was not a problem.

EB -If I'm pleased with my situation in the church family. Love the church family, and the pastor. Beard GONE, it isn't my arm, or a leg. He isn't telling me to remove my eyeball with the wooden spoon from a dixie cup. It is a beard. I have been a part of secular things which far more was asked of me. Again, this isn't about a beard, it is all about attitude. Hey, some people were never meant to be a part of a church or any religion for that matter.

Sure, but I only moved here 3 years ago. It was not mentioned when we said -Hi we moved here. So this was all surprise to me. I did say in my initial thread that if this was a problem, I would leave. Apperantly that is rebellious?




EB -If a bullfrog had wings he wouldn't bump his hind end every time he hopped.

Meaningless- drivel - I formated type to seperate thought ...




EB -It is a beard, it is facial hair, if you are in the church and LOVE everyone and everything. To grow or not to grow is fine. The 12 Tribe Community has the men grow beards, plus wear their hair in a small ponytail. Also in their church meetings they are to wear what they call diadems which are headbands. Guess what? If you want to be part of that religion you are going to do as they ask you. Why? Because you love them, and you love what they are doing.

I have not had time to decide if I love them, or what it may be they are doing. I do like them, maybe even love the pastor, a few others there not so much. I have been at the church at midnight making things for the pastor or the church. AGAIN - I have never made this an issue at church with anyone - I came here to see the response- after googling around to see if I could see other responses to this. Which landed me on Lois's site, as well as here. Gotta say I agree with her more often than Chosen - so - I'm sure that will lead straight to shooting dope and stuff.




EB -Clutches? Who are we talking about? Sauron? Bro, no clutches, no torture. You don't like what these brothers are doing, then you bid them a fond adieu.
Leaving the right way, is honorable, and right.

Clutches applies to worldly leader where leaving or fighting have much more immediate consequenses. Would have done the fond asieu, but problem has sorted itself. Seems the standard has changed with the same hush that sourronded its existence.



EB- You talking about the Mafia? Bro, being pushed in the corner can only be accomplished with we are fueling an altercation. If they don't want my family and I attending the church then I leave. But the ball is in my court to leave like in the right manner. People are going to be left behind who won't (and frankly don't need to) see my side of the story. Hence I leave clean, starting a fresh.

Yep unless the dude is nuts this is right, but I never argued against that point.


Must have missed something in the quote EB said - then:

EB-That's sound heroic, but in reality one bullet smack between the eyes ends patriotic speeches.

And may well that will be my end some day, dont really care, next point please.




EB- You don't feel the need, because it is a losing proposition. Because the guys with the sunglasses, body armor, badges and automatic weapons will shut you down. Draw your physical sword? Is it a light saber? Is it a magic sword pulled from a rock? Fully equipped with a wizard? No, no one is going to be locking and loading on no governing powers that be. Unless you want your wig split.

Again, dont care, get the same result either way, there being no new worlds to emigrate to. I dont feel the need, because I have not been pushed to a loose /Loose situation.



EB-Call'em like you see'em.

I always do.

EB-Jesus called Herod a fox, John the Baptist pointed out the adultery of Herod.
But we have to keep in mind that we are to be in peace, not walking down the street protesting, or causing a riot.

I agree and unless foxed in, like the Bundys, you wont find me with the SJWs or the Trupeteers, BLM or Antifa.

EB- Because you will rarely have people listen to you on that level. No one likes to hear smack about the preacher they have no problem with. You might find disgruntles who will agree with you. But when it comes time to leave, they won't be following you. tearing down the preacher to his people always makes the complainer look messy.

I have never once talked "smack' about my present pastor. Here or anywhere. I will however call the nut -(songbook toss) -I ran into- a nut.....for as long as I live.


EB-Because if you are going to attend, you leave the place like you found it. You don't show up to a church to change anything. If you were sent to do that, then the conversations of relaying new wisdom would have to go through the preacher. Food goes through the head, and not through the foot. But for the most part, thinking you are going to be the new sheriff in town and impart light to one and all. Then you will find out quick that there is an Uber outside waiting to bring you elsewhere.

I never said here or elsewhere that I intended to change it, dont know where this came from? There have been others that informed me of the dynamic in that church. I took in the information without comment to them other than I was sorry they felt that way. I'll not cover all that hear out of respect for the pastor, and that folks might figure out what church it is.



EB-Some places we are never meant to be a part of, but if we already know that they believe some things we don't. Then that needs to be made perfectly clear to the elders. Also that you aren't going to take your seeds and correct what you feel is wrong. You want to work with them, and not against them. If you can't possibly do that then even sitting on the pew for one night makes no sense. We are called to peace, and becoming some sort of religious headache to the pastor just isn't even cool.

No disagreement - cannot find relevance?

EB- If I question a standard, it is to the pastor. While we are all alone. he might have an awesome reason, he may not. But the thing is this, brothers and church families work hard to get where they are at. Their standards didn't pop up last week, or overnight. So, if all these guys and gals are cool and love what they are doing. Far be it from me to take muddy boots and start wiping them on the pastor's wife's carpet. You get nowhere doing that in heaven or on earth.


Yeah, fine no prob. These standards did pop up overnight - I was never informed when I visited -telling them we were interested in coming. But all I ever asked here- was what was the genisis of these standards not found in the bible, and relate that to a decision to leave or stay at a single church. I had not decided to talk to the pastor, or not yet, anyway when I got here. There being precious else for a 1ness apastolic church around here. I only arrived there to find this - after having gone there for some time. I asked one question on this forum, and Chosen's reply was that I need to pray through. I've been around long enough to know that is a direct rebuke - and he had little idea of what was prodding the question. He has also done this to the brother that posted a page back - on which that brother also commented on it.

This is because - some- and he has demonstrated himself to be one - think they are the only thing with truth, they are the only ones that can lead anyone to heaven, all other pastors are inferior, all other saints are even more inferior. It would not surpirise me to find he thinks Westberg was superior to Christ himself.
Anyone that says - hey wait a minute I don't find this in the bible, but it has been tought by (insert elder name here) - where did he get that from? And comes to the conclusion - often rightly - that it came from the thin hair surrounding his noggin - are automatically the spawn of satan. I think that is dangerous ground. But no one here cares a wit what I think - nor about what anyone here thinks of them - because they are the almighty himself's only one true kid. I'm sure either he, or you, will find a way to call me drunk - which I never am - or some other derogitory statement - including "drunk songbook dodger" - which is why you get the same from me.

[1ofthechosen]

Here's a sermon for you guys. There has to be leadership in anything, and your right the leader has to put himself under the people as a servant, I never was talking about some Pastor who was "getting victory over, or defeating the laity." No one ever said that the church would fail because no man would rule. That's twisting what im saying at best. Even in the authority of man is the Kingship of Jesus, that's just said as a strawman. Brother EB explained well how that was the case with either good or bad rule.

But there is going to always be rule, the church on earth is a reflection of whats in heaven . You shouldn't make a blanket statement, against Authority and then say you are submissive to Pastors and Elders. Even if you are, you are approving of the behavior of those who are looking for a excuse not to!

And to the other mischaracterizationa you said about what I was saying about you, I never said those things but if that's how you took it then there's something to that. But I wasn't saying that.

[Michael The Disciple]

1 Of The Chosen

Even in the authority of man is the Kingship of Jesus, that's just said as a strawman.

Is Jesus Lord? Your King? Your leader?

If so have you ever considered the fact that your Lord, King, and leader has a beard even now as he sits upon the throne?

That theres at LEAST a 50% chance that he does?

[Wilsonwas]

Dude - everytime anyone - says anything - that sounds like a challenge to authority of an Apastolic (not necessarily UPCI) pastor - you are on them like white on rice. I add not necessarily UPCI - because you are more lenient on posters asking of churches you think have slidden back...

Is this not your statement - with no qualification on whom the authority may be:
Bro anyone God places in authority is what this is talking about "Render therefore to all their dues: tribute to whom tribute is due; custom to whom custom; fear to whom fear; honour to whom honour."...

More you:
That means they have a authority problem theirself, Unless their elders all compromised! - You do not even know these men - thier hearts or their motives.

More: (note that I have not mocked any pastor other than songbook toosboy - you however earn your mockings)
What if I told you God allows His man to set standards? And in so going against it even bickering and making fun as you and others do on here, you are really coming against God.

I have chapter and...


Appearently for you to question or say nay is fine though:
Amen I'm in agreement with this. But my church did move away from the UPCI. But organizations are a man made thing, that wasn't taught from the Bible. While they may of had a council, there was no...

And to decide for yourself the spiritual condition of a pastor that left an org...Then to question his SOF with an added tone implying all sorts of stuff.
I was internet searching, and found this on a website of a former UPC minister (I don't think he's still part of that organization anyway..) I won't say any names, but he use to speak regularly at BOTT. But I was reading on his website in the tab that said "about us", and was shocked


I am not buying it this time - and I will apologize no more to you as you do not deserve it.

[1ofthechosen]

Originally Posted by Wilsonwas

Yeah, fine no prob. But all I ever asked here was what was the genisis of these standards not found in the bible, and relate that to a decision to leave or stay at a single church. I had not decided to talk to the pastor, or not yet, anyway when I got here. There being precious else for a 1ness apastolic church around here. I only arrived there to find this - after having gone there for some time. I asked one question on this forum, and Chosen basically said I need to pray through. I've been around long enough to know that is a direct rebuke - and he had little idea of what was prodding the question.

This is because - some- and he has demonstrated himself to be one - think they are the only thing with truth, they are the only ones that can lead anyone to heaven, all other pastors are inferior, all other saints are even more inferior. Anyone that says - hey wait a minute I don't find this in the bible, but it has been tought by (insert elder name here) - where did he get that from? And come to the conclusion - often rightly - that it came from the thin hair surrounding his noggin - are automatically the spawn of satan. I think that is dangerous ground. But no one here cares a wit what I think - nor about what anyone here thinks of them - because they are the almighty himself's only one true kid. I'm sure either he or you will find a way to call me drunk - which I never am - or some other derogitory statement - including drunk songbook dodger - which is why you get the same from me.

What in the world are you whining about now? More mischaracterizations from someone who always goes straight to the extreme of every situation.

When it comes to drinking you can do whatever you want to do. Hey like some worldly dude said "life is a highway, im going to ride it, all night long", but just know after you ride it that far out of the way, you may never find your way back.

Now to this crazy thing you said about I think I'm the only one with truth, I never said that. What I do is speak truth, and then the next thing I know you are calling me a pharasee and legalistic, because I have convictions. But ridicule is no match for real convictions, so it doesn't matter what you are implying to me.

But, all this other stuff you said I'm not a mind reader so how am I supposed to know? All I'm replying to is all the extremes you try to throw out there, to get somebody to agree with you. That's the liberal agenda on this forum, as soon as you say something that can't be refuted, and they know it can't. They go straight to either a.) "Are you saying it's a sin?" Which btw I'm sure no one said, because no one here is able to account sin to you. But a good scripture on that would be " for whatsoever is not of faith is sin." Or b.) They say "you say I'm going to hell?" I, neither you, or any man breathing have any hell to send anyone to. All I can do is show you in scripture what God says about it, the rest is up to Him.

I have started to use these back for kicks, because it's ridiculous how often these things are thrown out. And if you don't go with the flow and become a yes man, you become a pharasee and a legalist. If you in anyway confront things that are wrong, then you should wait for c) because that's plan c..

And then after that comes the extreme "situational questions". Where you say "so you telling me that if a Pastor tells you to wear a eye patch and cut your leg off, and get a peg leg you would do it?" Saying this all because whatever you said just hit home, and they are now trying to send you on a rabbit chase.. No my Pastor would never say something like that, but my Lord and my God did say "if thy right eye offend thee, pluck it out, and cast it from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not that thy whole body should be cast into hell. [30] And if thy right hand offend thee, cut it off, and cast it from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not that thy whole body should be cast into hell."

So with that said I believe this is my last time coming on here. If you want to talk or miss me I will post videos everyday on my thread still. But coming on here has become a major weight for me, and I have to separate myself from this atmosphere to hear more clearly from God. In the word of Brother Esaias "I believe liberalism is a mental disorder." Well said my Brother, well said! God bless you all in Jesus Name!

[1ofthechosen]

Originally Posted by Michael The Disciple

Is Jesus Lord? Your King? Your leader?

If so have you ever considered the fact that your Lord, King, and leader has a beard even now as he sits upon the throne?

That theres at LEAST a 50% chance that he does?

Mike Jesus may have a beard, but what does that have to do with anything?

What's that got to do with anything. He was a Jewish man, and it didn't represent you as a beatnik 2,000 years ago. But Mike you should start your own church, or find a church that sees thing the way you do, but complaining about the same things day in and day out is ridiculous.

[1ofthechosen]

Originally Posted by Wilsonwas

Dude - everytime anyone - says anything - that sounds like a challenge to authority of an Apastolic (not necessarily UPCI) pastor - you are on them like white on rice. I add not necessarily UPCI - because you are more lenient on posters asking of churches you think have slidden back...

Is this not your statement - with no qualification on whom the authority may be:
Bro anyone God places in authority is what this is talking about "Render therefore to all their dues: tribute to whom tribute is due; custom to whom custom; fear to whom fear; honour to whom honour."...

More you:
That means they have a authority problem theirself, Unless their elders all compromised! - You do not even know these men - thier hearts or their motives.

More: (note that I have not mocked any pastor other than songbook toosboy - you however earn your mockings)
What if I told you God allows His man to set standards? And in so going against it even bickering and making fun as you and others do on here, you are really coming against God.

I have chapter and...


Appearently for you to question or say nay is fine though:
Amen I'm in agreement with this. But my church did move away from the UPCI. But organizations are a man made thing, that wasn't taught from the Bible. While they may of had a council, there was no...

And to decide for yourself the spiritual condition of a pastor that left an org...Then to question his SOF with an added tone implying all sorts of stuff.
I was internet searching, and found this on a website of a former UPC minister (I don't think he's still part of that organization anyway..) I won't say any names, but he use to speak regularly at BOTT. But I was reading on his website in the tab that said "about us", and was shocked


I am not buying it this time - and I will apologize no more to you as you do not deserve it.

I don't need your apologies, I'll be fine and the whole thing with the SOF I never even did say who that was. Someone else did. But thank you for the ride down memory lane.

[CalledOut238]

Originally Posted by 1ofthechosen

And to the other mischaracterization a you said about what I was saying about you, I never said those things but if that's how you took it then there's something to that. But I wasn't saying that.

Originally Posted by 1ofthechosen

What your saying is very logical, and sounds great. But my Bible says "Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual. [14] But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned."

Your implying that my post was in the wisdom of men. Then use scripture to reinforce your viewpoint as truly a spiritual one. That is pretty disparaging.

Originally Posted by 1ofthechosen

What your saying sounds real good in the flesh, but it's absolutely foolishness in the Spirit..

Your statement stands for itself in implying that I am carnal. No misinterpretation here.

Originally Posted by 1ofthechosen

No one ever said that the church would fail because no man would rule.That's twisting what im saying at best.

Originally Posted by 1ofthechosen

What you have just prescribed is a dead church, missing the glory, with Ichabod written over the door!!.

I would disagree. This is fear mongering at best.

Originally Posted by 1ofthechosen

Even in the authority of man is the Kingship of Jesus, that's just said as a straw man.

I am having trouble following your sentence structure. But Jesus being the King of Kings is not a straw man argument. It is a fact.

Originally Posted by 1ofthechosen

You shouldn't make a blanket statement, against Authority and then say you are submissive to Pastors and Elders. ]

That summation shows me you did not read what I posted. I posted on the abuse of authority that has been prevalent through church history. The correct structure and the abused structure. I follow my Pastor as he follows Christ. But if he is in error then I will discuss our differences privately. But I do not subvert his position or belief to others. I keep it to myself for the unity of the brethren. This is submission to our Father's Word and not to a man's position in the body.

[Michael The Disciple]

Originally Posted by 1ofthechosen

Mike Jesus may have a beard, but what does that have to do with anything?

What's that got to do with anything. He was a Jewish man, and it didn't represent you as a beatnik 2,000 years ago. But Mike you should start your own church, or find a church that sees thing the way you do, but complaining about the same things day in and day out is ridiculous.

If it has nothing to do with anything why are you here in a thread called Judged By A Bearded Man?

Instead of trembling that your King himself may have a beard after all the things you and your friends have said about it all you can say is we ought to "obey the man of God".

The man of God is supposed to:

2 Timothy 4:1-2

1I charge thee therefore before God, and the Lord Jesus Christ, who shall judge the quick and the dead at his appearing and his kingdom; 2Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all longsuffering and doctrine.

If a Pastor does this, he is a Pastor indeed and worthy to oversee your soul. If he does not, he is just another man.

[1ofthechosen]

Originally Posted by CalledOut238

Originally Posted by 1ofthechosen View Post
No one ever said that the church would fail because no man would rule.That's twisting what im saying at best.
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1ofthechosen View Post
What you have just prescribed is a dead church, missing the glory, with Ichabod written over the door!!.

Btw this was said about a church with no 5 fold ministry, and in turn had not the gifts working in it. This had nothing to do with the rule of man in and of itself. Not as if flesh, could make it happen.

238:
I am having trouble following your sentence structure. But Jesus being the King of Kings is not a straw man argument. It is a fact.

Me: I never said He wasn't that my friend is a straw man... Of course Jesus is the King of Kings and Lord of Lord's. But anything that is in the authority of man, is also in turn in the Kingship of Jesus Christ. I never was supporting one without the other. I never have promoted being a respecter of person's, but that it all would come through the witness of He "That confirmeth the word of his servant, and performeth the counsel of his messengers." Because "God will perform His word, with signs and wonders following", and though men maybe used in the process, it has nothing to do with him. If you think that's what I'm saying, you have got me all wrong.


238:
That summation shows me you did not read what I posted. I posted on the abuse of authority that has been prevalent through church history. The correct structure and the abused structure. I follow my Pastor as he follows Christ. But if he is in error then I will discuss our differences privately. But I do not subvert his position or belief to others. I keep it to myself for the unity of the brethren.

Me: But you will go on AFF and root on, and inspire the disgruntled to buck the establishment? Just not in your church? Ok, as that is not really doing the same thing, in God's eyes...

Once again, hey but what do I know...