Removing Zionism From the Chruch

[KeptByTheWord]

Originally Posted by CalledOut238

The church began with Hebrews in Jerusalem. For the first 3.5 years the apostles and saints only sought out the lost sheep of Israel in Asia or Modern Turkey. But all of the Israelites were scattered into the entire known world.

Ezekiel 36: 19 And I scattered them among the heathen, and they were dispersed through the countries: according to their way and according to their doings I judged them. 20 And when they entered unto the heathen, whither they went, they profaned my holy name, when they said to them, These are the people of the Lord, and are gone forth out of his land 21 But I had pity for mine holy name, which the house of Israel had profaned among the heathen, whither they went.

Ezekiel 11:16 Therefore say, Thus saith the Lord God; Although I have cast them far off among the heathen, and although I have scattered them among the countries, yet will I be to them as a little sanctuary in the countries where they shall come.

Those who try to follow fleshly bloodlines are children of carnality. The Kingdom of God is attained through faith in the blood of Christ and is spiritual. Modern day Jews, Black Hebrew Israelites and British Israelism seek redemption through carnal genealogies. Each group disobeys the scriptures with humanistic and racist ideologies.

1 Timothy 1:4 Neither give heed to fables and endless genealogies, which minister questions, rather than godly edifying which is in faith: so do.

Titus 1:10 For there are many unruly and vain talkers and deceivers, specially they of the (circumcision):

Who is the circumcision in their day, the Edomite Jews?

Titus 1:11 Whose mouths must be stopped, who subvert whole houses, teaching things which they ought not, (for filthy lucre's sake.)

This sounds like these fake Hebrews; Edomite Jews, who control the financial system to me.

Titus 1:13 This witness is true. Wherefore rebuke them sharply, that they may be sound in the faith;

This post started as a rebuke and I have been thankful for those here on AFF doing the same.

Titus 1:14 Not giving heed to Jewish fables, and commandments of men, that turn from the truth.

The faithful need to take head to Revelation 2 & 3: 9; fake Judeans. The OT the tribe of Judah was called Yehuda. In the NT the Judeans; or Ioudaîos, referred to the remnant from Babylon and Edomites that lived in the Judean region. The present pronunciation of "Jew" in English is a new pronunciation acquired after the 18th century. And just as they persecuted our Lord they persecute his true church today.

John 7:1 After these things Jesus walked in Galilee: for He would not walk in Jewry, because the Jews sought to kill Him.

Jesus identified these so-called Jews as the descendants of Cain.

Matthew 23:35 That upon you may come all the righteous blood shed upon the earth, from the blood of righteous Abel unto the blood of Zacharias son of Barachias, whom ye slew between the temple and the altar.

But judgement has been prophesied as far back as Enoch and it will be executed.

Obadiah 1:21 And saviours shall come up on mount Zion to judge the mount of Esau; and the kingdom shall be the LORD'S.

Jude 1:14 And Enoch also, the seventh from Adam, prophesied of these, saying, Behold, the Lord cometh with ten thousands of his saints,

Selah

I would agree mostly with your premise above, but wonder what your thoughts are in regards to Romans 11, specifically these verses?

Romans 11:25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.
26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:
27 For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins.
28 As concerning the gospel, they are enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, they are beloved for the fathers' sakes.
29 For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance.

[Esaias]

Originally Posted by KeptByTheWord

I would agree mostly with your premise above, but wonder what your thoughts are in regards to Romans 11, specifically these verses?

Romans 11:25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.
26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:
27 For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins.
28 As concerning the gospel, they are enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, they are beloved for the fathers' sakes.
29 For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance.

Does that passage refer to Edomites, Khazars, Turks, Orientals, Ethiopians, etc, whose only thing in common is they follow the Talmud?

[CalledOut238]

Originally Posted by KeptByTheWord

I would agree mostly with your premise above, but wonder what your thoughts are in regards to Romans 11, specifically these verses?

Romans 11:25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.
26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:
27 For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins.
28 As concerning the gospel, they are enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, they are beloved for the fathers' sakes.
29 For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance.

26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob: 27 For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins.

This passage was fulfilled by our Lord Jesus Christ on the Cross of Calvary.

Selah

[Originalist]

Originally Posted by CalledOut238

This passage was fulfilled by our Lord Jesus Christ on the Cross of Calvary.

Selah

And it should also be interpreted in light of what Paul said two chapters earlier....

Esaias also crieth concerning Israel, Though the number of the children of Israel be as the sand of the sea, a remnant shall be saved: (Romans 9:27)

[CalledOut238]

Originally Posted by Originalist

And it should also be interpreted in light of what Paul said two chapters earlier....

My understanding is that Paul was quoting Isaiah prophesy of the Messiah.

Isaiah 59:20 And the Redeemer shall come to Zion, and unto them that turn from transgression in Jacob, saith the LORD.

Dispensationalism use OT scriptures that have been fulfilled. Isaiah prophesied of the second gathering, but I cannot find a third gathering in the NT.

Isaiah 10:22 For though thy people Israel be as the sand of the sea, yet a remnant of them shall return: the consumption decreed shall overflow with righteousness.
23 For the Lord God of hosts shall make a consumption, even determined, in the midst of all the land.

After Romans 9:27 you see Isaiah confirming the Lord's ministry will be short as predicted by the prophet.

Romans 9:28 For he will finish the work, and cut it short in righteousness: because a short work will the (Lord make upon the earth.)

I cannot not find a third Regathering in the OT nor NT. Darby dispensationalist are teaching error. There are great men and women of God who are way more intelligent than I am. But I can honestly say that the Lord taught me that He is One Lord, and the Born Again Message. He is the one that has been leading me down this path to address error in our fellowship. Not to cause dissention in the fellowship, but to remove the Jewish fables which have crept in the church.

1 Corinthians 1:27 But God hath chosen the foolish things of the world to confound the wise; and God hath chosen the weak things of the world to confound the things which are mighty.

Selah

[Originalist]

Originally Posted by CalledOut238

My understanding is that Paul was quoting Isaiah prophesy of the Messiah.

Isaiah 59:20 And the Redeemer shall come to Zion, and unto them that turn from transgression in Jacob, saith the LORD.

Dispensationalism use OT scriptures that have been fulfilled. Isaiah prophesied of the second gathering, but I cannot find a third gathering in the NT.

Isaiah 10:22 For though thy people Israel be as the sand of the sea, yet a remnant of them shall return: the consumption decreed shall overflow with righteousness.
23 For the Lord God of hosts shall make a consumption, even determined, in the midst of all the land.

After Romans 9:27 you see Isaiah confirming the Lord's ministry will be short as predicted by the prophet.

Romans 9:28 For he will finish the work, and cut it short in righteousness: because a short work will the (Lord make upon the earth.)

I cannot not find a third Regathering in the OT nor NT. Darby dispensationalist are teaching error. There are great men and women of God who are way more intelligent than I am. But I can honestly say that the Lord taught me that He is One Lord, and the Born Again Message. He is the one that has been leading me down this path to address error in our fellowship. Not to cause dissention in the fellowship, but to remove the Jewish fables which have crept in the church.

1 Corinthians 1:27 But God hath chosen the foolish things of the world to confound the wise; and God hath chosen the weak things of the world to confound the things which are mighty.

Selah

My point exactly. The "remnant" of national Israel that was to be saved was referring to the Jews that comprised the early church and the small sprinkling of Jews that have embraced truth since. If one were to study conversions among Jews compared to other groups since the days of Luther, I bet it would be quite interesting.

[CalledOut238]

Originally Posted by Originalist

My point exactly. The "remnant" of national Israel that was to be saved was referring to the Jews that comprised the early church and the small sprinkling of Jews that have embraced truth since. If one were to study conversions among Jews compared to other groups since the days of Luther, I bet it would be quite interesting.

I was expounding your point. I appreciate those of you who have know this longer than me. I have became aware of Zionism about three years ago. The error of Darby Dispensationalism for a little more than a year now. From the writings I have seen of Luther he was not a big fan of Jewry.

[Originalist]

Here's a couple of questions.....


For those who agree with the OP, how does eschatology play out in your view without national Israel being a factor at all?


For those who disagree with the OP, if it turns out his view is correct, how will that effect your eschatological views?

[Amanah]

help me understand the concept of the various *return of the Jews*

When were the two times they returned?
I thought only once since the Babylonian captivity if you don't count the 1948 return.

[Amanah]

http://christinprophecy.org/articles...ible-prophecy/

Prophecies Currently Being Fulfilled according to dispensationalism

The Jewish people will be regathered in unbelief from the four corners of the earth (Isaiah 11:11-12). Fulfillment: 20th Century and continuing.

The state of Israel will be re-established (Isaiah 66:7-8 & Ezekiel 37:21-22). Fulfillment: May 14, 1948.

The Jews will once again re-occupy the city of Jerusalem (Zechariah 8:4-8), Fulfillment: June 7, 1967.

The land of Israel will be reclaimed from its desolation, becoming once again a land of agricultural abundance (Ezekiel 36:34-35). Fulfillment: 20th Century and continuing.
The Hebrew language will be revived from the dead (Zephaniah 3:9). Fulfillment: 19th & 20th Centuries.

All the nations of the world will come together against Israel over the issue of the control of Jerusalem (Zechariah 12:1-3). Fulfillment: Currently occurring