Why I Left the UPC

[ILG]

Originally Posted by Amanah

actually when i think of going back into long skirts with long sleeves and having to fix that long hair, I do get a little queasy.

Sure, but I think queasy is different from hate. That's my opinion anyway.

[Margies3]

Originally Posted by JTULLOCK

I am guessing your friend not only strict standards but she is strict that it is heaven and hell too. That being said if she leaves then that is on them. I went to a church a lil back and there were a few ladies that looked UPCish and the church wasn't. If you are to obey your pastor and he doesn't preach that certain things are wrong that doesn't mean you have to do them, like you have to cut your hair, but if you do then you aren't going to be called out on it. If they don't feel it is heaven and hell for everyone, but they feel that for themselves then they have no reason to leave because if they stay then all they are doing is holding to their beliefs as are others in the church now. Make sense?

Makes perfect sense to me. And I agree with you.My friend has always insisted that she doesn't see the standards as a heaven or hell issue. But like you said, if that's the case, then what does it matter what the preacher teaches about them? Just live what YOU feel you need to do and don't worry about anyone else. The fact that it bothers her enough for her to leave tells me that it's more important to her than she wants us to think.

[RandyWayne]

Originally Posted by Margies3

You know, I am having a thought here.............

We've been discussing in this thread how so many of us were taught to follow (obey) the pastor. We assume that that means that we would be following him into MORE holiness standards for living. However, I am seeing more and more UPC pastors who are saying to their congregations that they no longer agree with the old ways. They're not going to preach the standards anymore. Cutting your hair, beards, TV - all of that will no longer be an issue. Sooooo........... now say you've got some saints in the church who totally DISAGREE with lowering the standards. Do they stay and obey the pastor? Or do they take their toys and move on?

I have a friend who is in this situation right now. She still believes strict standards. But her pastor no longer does. At this point, they have left this church and are looking for a new church home. The thing is that finding a church that teaches the kinds of standards that they believe is getting harder and harder to do. hmmm...........

I truly believe that people in this situation NEED to hear the pastor wail against people not doing things typically associated with holiness standards in order for them to continue to feel saved. If a lady continues to keep her hair uncut and only wear dresses, she has probably always felt that doing those things is helping her earn her way into heaven and so when she no longer gets that continual affirmation, suddenly she is a bit less sure of her own status and will seek out someone who continues to offer reassurance of her own salvation. True grace is tough to accept and be confident in! It is not as "greasy" as the UC will have you believe.

[Margies3]

Originally Posted by RandyWayne

I truly believe that people in this situation NEED to hear the pastor wail against people doing things typically associated with holiness standards in order for them to continue to feel saved. If a lady continues to keep her hair uncut and only wear dresses, she has probably always felt that doing those is helping her earn her way into heaven and so when she no longer gets that continual affirmation, suddenly she is a bit less sure of her own status.

I think you are right, RW. That's why it's such a badge of honor.

[Jack Shephard]

Originally Posted by Margies3

Makes perfect sense to me. And I agree with you.My friend has always insisted that she doesn't see the standards as a heaven or hell issue. But like you said, if that's the case, then what does it matter what the preacher teaches about them? Just live what YOU feel you need to do and don't worry about anyone else. The fact that it bothers her enough for her to leave tells me that it's more important to her than she wants us to think.

Right... Actions speaks louder than words...don't ya think?

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by Whoop Harted

Looks like he found some here on this forum.

Lots of holiness haters here.

Originally Posted by ILG

Haters in an incorrect way of putting it. Ambivalent maybe. Indifferent perhaps with some of us. But haters? Not likely.

Actually that is incorrect too. Nobody has a problem with Holiness at all here that I can see. The problem is with "standards"

[Margies3]

Originally Posted by Praxeas

Actually that is incorrect too. Nobody has a problem with Holiness at all here that I can see. The problem is with "standards"

Correct. Holiness does NOT equal standards. Two different things.

[Truthseeker]

Originally Posted by Margies3

Correct. Holiness does NOT equal standards. Two different things.

But holiness will have a standard.

[RandyWayne]

Originally Posted by Truthseeker

But holiness will have a standard.

Who's standards?

The UC will say that culture plays no part in the standards they preach.

[TGBTG]

Originally Posted by Truthseeker

But holiness will have a standard.

what scripture says this?