They didn't say the "opposite" (that the tongues brought the HGB). They say that the HG puts words into your mind, and you speak them. I think Praxeas is saying that's not how it works, but rather the HG controls your lips, tongue, vocal cords, etc and takes over the vocalizing directly. Is that how you would describe it? (And Praxeas, did I get that right, from what you said?)
I wouldn't say that's opposite. Just different steps in the process. One less step, in your case. Your way is more "efficient"!
No I do not think the HG puts word into you mind I think it automatically takes over through yielding.
No I do not think the HG puts word into you mind I think it automatically takes over through yielding.
Yeah, I think I agree with that as I have experienced it a couple times, words came out of my mouth that my brain didn't think aforehand. It happened while I was witnessing once and I rejoice to say that person has been in church and stable for 15 years. I can't claim anything, I was just the donkey that was at hand...
Pretty much. What I mean by "came into my mind" is like when you're just daydreaming, and thoughts just seem to pop in, uninvited. I'm sure that's not really what happens, though, and it's more like thoughts forming based on your own experiences and memories, without much conscious effort. In the case of tongues, it's memories of hearing others, and allowing my mind to process, modify, and combine them, to make them my own.
I don't think it was syllables and words "popping in" from some external source, like the HG or a demon, both of which I've heard as theories for this kind of thing. I think it was just "me".
What if it wasn't just you? I can honestly say I've never experienced random non-words or foreign words just forming in mind....not only that when I speak in tongues they are quite unlike most others. Also, what about those that come to a service for the first time and begin speaking in tongues?
Why would your mind randomly do that right at that moment you were praying?
Also, what led you to later reject it as real, since you testify at the time you did think it was real. What happened?
Do you hear tongues in your mind and then say it out loud??
No, I don't. Nor did I when it first happened to me.
I was praising God and my lips were trembling on their own and I kept trying to say something in english and my tongue and lips would not cooperate with me
OK, a little more detail is needed! At first, I did use English. They "corrected" me, though, and said things like "don't use English! Say what the Spirit puts in your mind" or some such. Their theory was that, contrary to your experience, the Holy Spirit will tell you in your mind what to say, and it's up to you to say it (or not). Now, I figured that part out later, from hearing preachers and teachers describe their understanding of the process and so on. At the time of my baptism, they didn't really spell it out in detail (or maybe the preacher that night talked about it that way, I don't recall).
I've never heard anyone do that in a service. We just encourage people to praise God and believe him by faith and it happens. On the other hand I have heard that some folks while praying heard words in their mind and simply started repeating them and then the Spirit took over, but I never heard anyone just telling someone to stop speaking in english. I do know that sometimes it seems you can tell someone is close and are actually resisting what is happening...in other words they are trying to speak in english when the Spirit is working otherwise.
They didn't say the "opposite" (that the tongues brought the HGB). They say that the HG puts words into your mind, and you speak them. I think Praxeas is saying that's not how it works, but rather the HG controls your lips, tongue, vocal cords, etc and takes over the vocalizing directly. Is that how you would describe it? (And Praxeas, did I get that right, from what you said?)
I wouldn't say that's opposite. Just different steps in the process. One less step, in your case. Your way is more "efficient"!
In my case, when I tried to speak in english I was unable to do it....the Spirit caused my tongue and lips to form other sounds. It's true that you have to be willing to yield to the Spirit and allow God to speak through you.
It might be in some cases someone hears words that they repeat. I mean, how do you all think prophecies or words of knowledge work? You hear the words and repeat them. Same with interpretations
Yeah, I think I agree with that as I have experienced it a couple times, words came out of my mouth that my brain didn't think aforehand. It happened while I was witnessing once and I rejoice to say that person has been in church and stable for 15 years. I can't claim anything, I was just the donkey that was at hand...
Was it a person or a cow? Been in a stable for 15 years eh?
I have hear tongues(not in the spiritual sense) spoken and interpeted both by missionaries I have been to Haiti & Brazil and I have heard political speeches on the radio and the interpetation of what is spoken is not the same in lenght that is a fact. Have you ever heard a language translated?
Sure. You're right about that, to some extent. But it seems that tongues translations can have a much larger difference, like one may be several times longer than the other, vs human language translations.
Quote:
Their are no doubt fake tongues as fake professions of faith it means nothing. There must be a real to produce a fake.
Um, are you sure you want to go down that path?
Are there fake leprechauns? Then there must be the real thing, too! By your logic, there must be real leprechauns to produce fake ones (whether in movies or literature, costumed pranksters, or whatever.) The mere existence of fake tongues does not prove that there also exists the real thing. If it did, then there must also be real leprechauns, real tooth fairies, and real three-dollar bills.
In my case, when I tried to speak in english I was unable to do it....the Spirit caused my tongue and lips to form other sounds. It's true that you have to be willing to yield to the Spirit and allow God to speak through you.
Yes, you mentioned before that you tried to speak English and couldn't. I'm not sure which is more disturbing: hearing things in your head and speaking them, or losing self-control.
Yes, you mentioned before that you tried to speak English and couldn't. I'm not sure which is more disturbing: hearing things in your head and speaking them, or losing self-control.
I am disturbed you would find it disturbing.
Peter had a vision...who was in control?
daniel fell as dead...who was in control?
John too....who was in control?
When Paul was taken up into the third heavens...who was in control?
When they spoke in tongues on the day of Pentecost....how do you think that worked? They read it from a book? They Holy Ghost gave them utterance? They heard words and repeated them?
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