Noah and the Ark

[NotforSale]

I see that this Thread has shifted a little bit, and for good reason. Noah and the Ark was a miracle, right? OK, assume it was. Everything about what happened, shouldn't have, but did, because of a Supernatural event. Science and facts just went out the window. No rhyme or reason, it just did. (Please notice the whole point of this story; FEAR. If the Church ain’t lining up, get the message out about Noah! That’ll teach em!)

I will be honest about the "Miracle" thing. I see Creation as that, a Creation. God made what we see, feel, and touch, and the obvious signature is there, at least for me. Just like a Painting, the stroke of the brush warrants the responsibility of someone. I really don't see any guess work with Creation. In fact, I don't see it as a miracle, and, I see God making things that can be measured, weighed, and tested. The Earth is not a mistake; it was designed with a purpose and a reason.

I've been serving the Lord in the Apostolic Church for over 30 years. I've been in more prayer lines than I can count. I've prayed for people, fasted for needs, and have pastored for 14 years. I've seen many claim a miracle, but have seen later that they either lied, were pressured to say they were healed, or that chance was simply in the equation. I've never seen blind eyes open or the cripple walk again.

I don't want to rain on anybody's parade, but the whole miracle crusade thing, and celebrities like Benny Hen, have soured my stomach over trusting in things that never happen. It becomes a mental game, the mind playing tricks. Maybe I'm in sin? Maybe we are not praying hard enough? Let's try harder? Let's tarry? Keep believing!! Come on, Trust in the Lord! Don't stop! Don't give up! This has probably driven more people away from church than what it has drawn. False hopes get old. Empty dreams leave one weak.

We had a Missionary from the UPC stop by our church in the 80's. He told us numerous stories of things that God had done in Africa. He told us a young boy's legs grew back during the night, sending the whole village into Revival. I believed every word, and my Faith went through the roof. God could do anything!! Well, when I became a Pastor, I found out this guy was a fraud. He blatantly lied to Churches all over the Nation so he could get financial support.

We went to a Healing Crusade a few years back. What a circus. People were being called out of the crowd, "You've got a back problem!!” (Yeah, well who doesn't when you get old?) After an Earth Shattering Prayer and a bunch of screaming, the preacher stuffed a microphone in their face, "So, How do you FEEL???" All eyes upon them, what do you expect them to say, "Just terrible!"

Church has become a place of emotional letdown. We keep expecting to see something great or supernatural, but Life is just Life. We work, love, eat, rest, get old, and die. And as age comes upon us Baby Boomers, we aren't the dumb little, pot smoking, kids of the 60's anymore. We've seen life and tested her waters. We see what Religion has done to Planet Earth, and that we may have been manipulated when we were young and zealous.

I really have yet to meet someone who can tell me that beyond any shadow of doubt, God Healed them, and I find this strange after all these years. So, this if for all you out there who wonder why I feel the way I do, and why the Facts are more important to me than ever before.

Just being honest.................

[notofworks]

Originally Posted by NotforSale

I see that this Thread has shifted a little bit, and for good reason. Noah and the Ark was a miracle, right? OK, assume it was. Everything about what happened, shouldn't have, but did, because of a Supernatural event. Science and facts just went out the window. No rhyme or reason, it just did. (Please notice the whole point of this story; FEAR. If the Church ain’t lining up, get the message out about Noah! That’ll teach em!)

I will be honest about the "Miracle" thing. I see Creation as that, a Creation. God made what we see, feel, and touch, and the obvious signature is there, at least for me. Just like a Painting, the stroke of the brush warrants the responsibility of someone. I really don't see any guess work with Creation. In fact, I don't see it as a miracle, and, I see God making things that can be measured, weighed, and tested. The Earth is not a mistake; it was designed with a purpose and a reason.

I've been serving the Lord in the Apostolic Church for over 30 years. I've been in more prayer lines than I can count. I've prayed for people, fasted for needs, and have pastored for 14 years. I've seen many claim a miracle, but have seen later that they either lied, were pressured to say they were healed, or that chance was simply in the equation. I've never seen blind eyes open or the cripple walk again.

I don't want to rain on anybody's parade, but the whole miracle crusade thing, and celebrities like Benny Hen, have soured my stomach over trusting in things that never happen. It becomes a mental game, the mind playing tricks. Maybe I'm in sin? Maybe we are not praying hard enough? Let's try harder? Let's tarry? Keep believing!! Come on, Trust in the Lord! Don't stop! Don't give up! This has probably driven more people away from church than what it has drawn. False hopes get old. Empty dreams leave one weak.

We had a Missionary from the UPC stop by our church in the 80's. He told us numerous stories of things that God had done in Africa. He told us a young boy's legs grew back during the night, sending the whole village into Revival. I believed every word, and my Faith went through the roof. God could do anything!! Well, when I became a Pastor, I found out this guy was a fraud. He blatantly lied to Churches all over the Nation so he could get financial support.

We went to a Healing Crusade a few years back. What a circus. People were being called out of the crowd, "You've got a back problem!!” (Yeah, well who doesn't when you get old?) After an Earth Shattering Prayer and a bunch of screaming, the preacher stuffed a microphone in their face, "So, How do you FEEL???" All eyes upon them, what do you expect them to say, "Just terrible!"

Church has become a place of emotional letdown. We keep expecting to see something great or supernatural, but Life is just Life. We work, love, eat, rest, get old, and die. And as age comes upon us Baby Boomers, we aren't the dumb little, pot smoking, kids of the 60's anymore. We've seen life and tested her waters. We see what Religion has done to Planet Earth, and that we may have been manipulated when we were young and zealous.

I really have yet to meet someone who can tell me that beyond any shadow of doubt, God Healed them, and I find this strange after all these years. So, this if for all you out there who wonder why I feel the way I do, and why the Facts are more important to me than ever before.

Just being honest.................

I would stand and applaud, and greatly relate to every single word you said.

[Michael The Disciple]

The God of the Bible is vast beyond our wildest imagination. He has been so kind to give us a history of his dealings with man and his teachings for us to live by. Yeshua said we must come to him as a little child or we cannot enter the kingdom. When he draws us to himself he enables us to accept the things men consider foolish.

If I were to tell some of the things YHWH has done in my life they would be ridiculed and various ones would think I was making it up. Having experienced the awesome glory of the Spirit of YHWH it seems he can do any thing. My Mother told me when I was two years old I pointed at the Bible and said "thats a spirit".

Those who are teaching we must challenge the Bible in order to help Christianity so to speak are imo not of the Spirit of YHWH. It is their way of thinking that stumbles unbelievers in the first place. They are already taught in the schools that the Bible is nothing but myths. Then they come on an Apostolic forum and find the very same message being taught here by some. That is probably more destructive to their faith than all they learned in science class.

Satan has raised up many in this last day to spread his message that the holy scriptures are really just nothing. They are his best soul winners! Faith in God and Christ is revealed as one believes the sacred stories.

4: For whatsoever things were written aforetime were written for our learning, that we through patience and comfort of the scriptures might have hope. Romans 15:4

[Michael The Disciple]

I really have yet to meet someone who can tell me that beyond any shadow of doubt, God Healed them, and I find this strange after all these years. So, this if for all you out there who wonder why I feel the way I do, and why the Facts are more important to me than ever before.

Yet if one were to give their testimony of healing would you believe them? Or would you immediately begin questioning? What if they were healed (facts) and you did not believe them?

[NotforSale]

Originally Posted by Michael The Disciple

Yet if one were to give their testimony of healing would you believe them? Or would you immediately begin questioning? What if they were healed (facts) and you did not believe them?

Do you believe the people on Benny Hens TV show are healed?

If you told me you were healed, and 10 years from now I find out you were a fraud...............

[BeenThinkin]

Originally Posted by NotforSale

I see that this Thread has shifted a little bit, and for good reason. Noah and the Ark was a miracle, right? OK, assume it was. Everything about what happened, shouldn't have, but did, because of a Supernatural event. Science and facts just went out the window. No rhyme or reason, it just did. (Please notice the whole point of this story; FEAR. If the Church ain’t lining up, get the message out about Noah! That’ll teach em!)

I will be honest about the "Miracle" thing. I see Creation as that, a Creation. God made what we see, feel, and touch, and the obvious signature is there, at least for me. Just like a Painting, the stroke of the brush warrants the responsibility of someone. I really don't see any guess work with Creation. In fact, I don't see it as a miracle, and, I see God making things that can be measured, weighed, and tested. The Earth is not a mistake; it was designed with a purpose and a reason.

I've been serving the Lord in the Apostolic Church for over 30 years. I've been in more prayer lines than I can count. I've prayed for people, fasted for needs, and have pastored for 14 years. I've seen many claim a miracle, but have seen later that they either lied, were pressured to say they were healed, or that chance was simply in the equation. I've never seen blind eyes open or the cripple walk again.

I don't want to rain on anybody's parade, but the whole miracle crusade thing, and celebrities like Benny Hen, have soured my stomach over trusting in things that never happen. It becomes a mental game, the mind playing tricks. Maybe I'm in sin? Maybe we are not praying hard enough? Let's try harder? Let's tarry? Keep believing!! Come on, Trust in the Lord! Don't stop! Don't give up! This has probably driven more people away from church than what it has drawn. False hopes get old. Empty dreams leave one weak.

We had a Missionary from the UPC stop by our church in the 80's. He told us numerous stories of things that God had done in Africa. He told us a young boy's legs grew back during the night, sending the whole village into Revival. I believed every word, and my Faith went through the roof. God could do anything!! Well, when I became a Pastor, I found out this guy was a fraud. He blatantly lied to Churches all over the Nation so he could get financial support.

We went to a Healing Crusade a few years back. What a circus. People were being called out of the crowd, "You've got a back problem!!” (Yeah, well who doesn't when you get old?) After an Earth Shattering Prayer and a bunch of screaming, the preacher stuffed a microphone in their face, "So, How do you FEEL???" All eyes upon them, what do you expect them to say, "Just terrible!"

Church has become a place of emotional letdown. We keep expecting to see something great or supernatural, but Life is just Life. We work, love, eat, rest, get old, and die. And as age comes upon us Baby Boomers, we aren't the dumb little, pot smoking, kids of the 60's anymore. We've seen life and tested her waters. We see what Religion has done to Planet Earth, and that we may have been manipulated when we were young and zealous.

I really have yet to meet someone who can tell me that beyond any shadow of doubt, God Healed them, and I find this strange after all these years. So, this if for all you out there who wonder why I feel the way I do, and why the Facts are more important to me than ever before.

Just being honest.................

Boy, NotForSale.... I wish you were for sale, and that someone had bought you and carried you off! TIC.

Some of your posting has left me scratching my head. But boy this post blows me out of the water! Why? Because I relate to too much of it. We've quoted about the "signs that follow the believers" and then pick and choose which ones it's okay not to have and which ones we must have to keep from going to hell! Hello!

God bless you! I'm gonna read this post again! No wonder some of the old timers forbade us to do any thinking!

How many folks could really live up to this scripture... "1Pe 3:15* But sanctify the Lord God in your hearts: and be ready always to give an answer to every man that asketh you a reason of the hope that is in you with meekness and fear:"

Been Thinkin

[*AQuietPlace*]

Originally Posted by NotforSale

I really have yet to meet someone who can tell me that beyond any shadow of doubt, God Healed them, and I find this strange after all these years

I have. A few real, genuine, documented miracles. Not many, but a few.

[notofworks]

Originally Posted by *AQuietPlace*

I have. A few real, genuine, documented miracles. Not many, but a few.

And I would have to go with Timmy on this point and say this bothers me more than no one genuinely being healed. So would God just heal a few here and there and give us all false hope? I'm basically using his words, but I'll echo them because I relate.

I've heard a gazillion claims. But I've never seen a paralyzed person jump up and walk. I'd like to see that.

Since Notforsale opened the door (thanks for having the guts), I'll admit that I don't preach healing that much. Maybe ever? Honesty time. I've never witnessed a healing. I don't feel comfortable creating false hope. Sure, I've heard the "God healed my back" claims and things that could never be documented.

But I absolutely HAVE seen God's hand at work in my life and I could tell the stories that I've witnessed myself. I've had visions that came true to the most finite detail. I've had ridiculous financial provisions. But healing? No.

[Esther]

"I really have yet to meet someone who can tell me that beyond any shadow of doubt, God Healed them, and I find this strange after all these years. So, this if for all you out there who wonder why I feel the way I do, and why the Facts are more important to me than ever before."

I was healed in 1986 sitting in a wheelchair and I am still walking without a limp. The doctor said that IF I ever walked again it would be with a distinctive limp.

When I went to see him after God healed me he said, "By the book, your not suppose to be walking" then he said, "your body makes calcium really fast". lol

I said by the Book I go by I should be walking. I told him God healed me. He wasn't too much into that.

[Sam]

For several years I have been on a prayer team that visits folks and prays for them in homes, hospitals, and nursing homes. I don't know how many we've prayed for over the years. I've never once seen someone jump out of a hospital bed and run down the hall shouting, "I'm healed! I'm healed!" Some folks that we have prayed for have later died. Some got well in time and some got well sooner than expected. There have been a few that there was no real explanation other than that God did it. We thank God for whatever happens and for however God heals and we keep on plugging along visiting, reading Scriptures, encouraging, and praying. I wish we saw more results and more dramatic results but I have to believe that God is a Healer because that is how I understand the Bible.

By the way, the guy I go on these visits with is a Roman Catholic who has been baptized in the Spirit and we read from his Roman Catholic Bible with the imprimatur inside the front cover and with the Apocrypha included. Some times we even read Ecclesiasticus 38 when we visit folks. I'm 72 and Bob is 71 so we tell folks we are "elders" according to James 5 and that we are a prayer team made up of a Catholic and a Pentecostal. Bob goes to the Vineyard Church (and some times to a Catholic Church) and I go to a church that would be considered by folks here to be Trinity Pentecostal or Charismatic.