Apology to World

[Newman]

Wii-

1. I feel that it is fair to look at the fruit of Islam just as it would be to look at the fruit of Christianity.

What is done in the name of Allah isn't necesarily in line with what all Muslims believe but it isn't outside of the teaching of the Koran nor evidently (in all cases) the law of the land inspired by the Koran. In contrast the crimes committed by so called Christian ministers (which you brought up) are against Biblical teaching and against the law of America which was founded upon Judeo-Christian values.

2. Hmm... Azusa Street took place in an integrated setting. The founder of my church was ordained by a black minister. My church is integrated. I have visited an all black church in the inner city 30 miles away. I have visited an all white church in an area of all white people in Tennessee. And lots of churches in between with a variety of people. This is my experience.

I understand there may have been different dynamics in the South where racism had been codified into state law.

3. When the UPC was forming there were state laws in the South that made it hard for our black brethren to fellowship back and forth across state lines (as far as spending the night to attend conventions and organizational meetings). Consequently, it was easier have black and white organizations. The laws in the south were eventually changed. However, the organizations remained having built up their individaul bases already.

4. Good grief! I never saw such a list (the famous black Americans who are Republican) until I looked for it on the internet based on our discussion.

No, it's (probably) just random coincidence that those with brown skin usually end up in the gunsights or in the refugee camps or living in the shellholes isn't it?

5. Perhaps its not coincidence that "brown skin" people have suffered much at the hands of other "brown skin" people because the abusers don't believe that God created all people in his image and consequently they can deal brutally with others.

(Note this is not actually about their brown skin but indicative of their religious viewpoint shaped by where they were born).

The Nazis and Communists did their best to turn their nations from Christianity. Otherwise, the horrendous acts against yellow and white people couldn't have occurred either.

[Newman]

Originally Posted by Walks_in_islam

Why are some of the signs in english or why are many if not most of the signs in the footage YOU see in english?

To #1 english appeals to more viewers and and sends a message to more parts of the world than any other language.

To #2 in the footage I see that you do not see (BBC, euro news, and english Al-Jazeera) there are very few signs in english. Most of the signs are in arabic or farsi. In the foxnews/CNN footage I see that you also see a disproportionate number of the signs are in english. Why? Probably because the thought of lots of english signs is more "appealing" or "newsworthy" to the audience in the eyes of the editors than the actual, accurate, raw footage.

Note: The appealing and newsworthy part appears to have worked lol

Asked and answered?

Umm- I watched mostly raw footage from telephone transmissions on Atlas Shrugs along with Twitter and Facebook entries. I am persuaded that they cared a great deal that America knew of their struggle.

[Newman]

Wii-

1. Why is it obvious to those in Saudi Arabia that you are an American?

2. Outside of being born into an American family what do you feel you have in common with America?

[Walks_in_islam]

Your answer

Originally Posted by Newman

Wii-

1. I feel that it is fair to look at the fruit of Islam just as it would be to look at the fruit of Christianity.

I contend that the "fruit of christianity" and "christian nations" has covered the entire world in weapons, suffering, and blood. What say you to that or do you have an example, one, of some part of the world somewhere that this is not true. Perhaps we can have a geography/history discussion. We merely hold different viewpoints as to the net outcome of "planting fruit"

What is done in the name of Allah isn't necesarily in line with what all Muslims believe but it isn't outside of the teaching of the Koran nor evidently (in all cases) the law of the land inspired by the Koran. In contrast the crimes committed by so called Christian ministers (which you brought up) are against Biblical teaching and against the law of America which was founded upon Judeo-Christian values.

What do you know about the teaching of the Quran? Have you read what you comment on? I guarantee you that these actions of which you speak are far, far outside the teaching of the Quran.

The law of America specifically prohibits "christian" values from being involved in its application. For a reason. Because the net outcome of misplace and unchecked "christian values" is no different from the net outcome of misplaced and unchecked "islamic values" and our founding fathers, from recent experience, knew that

2. Hmm... Azusa Street took place in an integrated setting. The founder of my church was ordained by a black minister. My church is integrated. I have visited an all black church in the inner city 30 miles away. I have visited an all white church in an area of all white people in Tennessee. And lots of churches in between with a variety of people. This is my experience.

I care none for "Azusa street". I am talking about the churches of TODAY. I also care none if you "had a muslim for dinner" or "visited a black person". That may make you feel better or sleep better but I have not heard you specifically deny that the churches, ESPECIALLY pentecostal ones, have been segregated.

I understand there may have been different dynamics in the South where racism had been codified into state law.

And that segregation has NOTHING to do with "state law".

3. When the UPC was forming there were state laws in the South that made it hard for our black brethren to fellowship back and forth across state lines (as far as spending the night to attend conventions and organizational meetings). Consequently, it was easier have black and white organizations. The laws in the south were eventually changed. However, the organizations remained having built up their individaul bases already.

It appears to be hard for your "black brethren" to visit your 'general conferences' and 'camp meetings' now. Only half of the "black and white" think it was "easier to have black and white organizations". It is arrogant of you to convince yourself otherwise.

4. Good grief! I never saw such a list (the famous black Americans who are Republican) until I looked for it on the internet based on our discussion.

lol and you called ME color-focused?

5. Perhaps its not coincidence that "brown skin" people have suffered much at the hands of other "brown skin" people because the abusers don't believe that God created all people in his image and consequently they can deal brutally with others.

(Note this is not actually about their brown skin but indicative of their religious viewpoint shaped by where they were born).

The Nazis and Communists did their best to turn their nations from Christianity. Otherwise, the horrendous acts against yellow and white people couldn't have occurred either.

We are not talking about yellow and white people nor are we talking about nazis and communists. Some of the things you people post about muslims are very similar to what nazis posted about jews and other minorities. You would make great nazi propaganda agents. What next? You have a "yellow republican" list out there somewhere? Good grief.

[Walks_in_islam]

I am persuaded they care a great deal that as much of the world as possible sees their struggle. Including americans.

Originally Posted by Newman

Umm- I watched mostly raw footage from telephone transmissions on Atlas Shrugs along with Twitter and Facebook entries. I am persuaded that they cared a great deal that America knew of their struggle.

[Walks_in_islam]

Everyone knows I am american. You think your opinion of a random screen name changes who (I) am?

Grrrrr......Are you numb? I grew up there. I worked there from alaska to texas, bought and sold homes, paid taxes, travelled....What do you feel I do NOT have in common with America? Other than I do not live there anymore and all my credit cards have zero balances lol...

Originally Posted by Newman

Wii-

1. Why is it obvious to those in Saudi Arabia that you are an American?

2. Outside of being born into an American family what do you feel you have in common with America?

[Newman]

Wii- I am out of time and back to the real world. Maybe I can come back and pick up this conversation another time.

But for the record, we have different views of what it means to be American. I attach a whole lot more to it then you do. And consequently, I would not be safe making a living in Sadia Arabia even if I looked like a Muslim on the outside.

[SOUNWORTHY]

Originally Posted by Walks_in_islam

Everyone knows I am american. You think your opinion of a random screen name changes who (I) am?

Grrrrr......Are you numb? I grew up there. I worked there from alaska to texas, bought and sold homes, paid taxes, travelled....What do you feel I do NOT have in common with America? Other than I do not live there anymore and all my credit cards have zero balances lol...

Growing up here doesn't make you an American anymore than an onion
growing in a rose garden make it a rose. If I hated America and God and Christians as much as you do I wouldn't even want to be called an America.

[Walks_in_islam]

I look like an american on the outside. What, you think I buy my clothes here or something? You think there are "arab nomex coveralls" to wear to work? lmao....

For your info my level of awareness of "color-focus" and change in political views were steeply raised when my wife was denied a visitors visa to the US while waiting for her immigration paperwork to be processed. We spent the first (7) months of our marriage apart and in separate countries because of this. There was no discernable reason for this. Research of thousands of cases and timelines on visajourney.com indicated that denial/approval of these are based on what country you are from rather than an equal application of law or rules across the board. The political aspect of this was raised when (2) republican senators blew this off while a new democratic representative and his staff worked tirelessly to help bring our case to conclusion. He is the one who replaced the republican Tom Delay who was the perfect picture of "religious right" (but) left office amid scandal. "Family values" indeed. Your party should change your "family values" motto to "white values" which would more reflect both your priorities and your base of supporters.

I was happy to see the party who developed the 'department of homeland stupidity' tossed out in the meantime. The same agency who cannot seem to manage to locate the illegal aliens out in front of home depot ALSO could not locate my 56-page set of documents that included name, pedigree, birth certificate, 10 years of work and address history, phone numbers, email addresses, AND a check. After cashing the check at the speed of light they lost the rest of it for 4 months. They also subsequently, after arrival, could not manage take a set of 10 fingerprints from my wife that the FBI could read in spite of a multi-million dollar fingerprint machine and (2) visits where a technician carefully rolled all 10 fingers across said machine.

My wife has been fingerprinted more times than the boston strangler. Since we live under a different set of rules aka we have to register with 'homeland stupidity' if we move, we have to have her go in to be routinely fingerprinted, if (hopefully this will not happen) somehow my wife has to use any public funds like medicaid, welfare, etc because of job loss or other emergency we have to pay it back, YOUR talk of "freedom" or "equality" is a joke. When you have to "register" your location with the government and keep your fingerprints on file (and enclose a check every time) come back and speak of "freedom" to me. The rules and regulations WE lived under in the US would make stalin or hitler proud.

My newborn daughter? God help us when we bring our 4-inch stack of paperwork in next week to get her "certificate of birth abroad" and passport.

The last straw for me was the fingerprint biometric card that (I) was issued to go to work (TWIC card) to do the same thing that I have been doing for 19years. Being resentful of that IS what being an American is about and I chose not to continue to be taxed to death while also paying a fee to be fingerprinted to be able to go to work.

I do not have to have a biometric card in what you call "one of the most oppressive countries in the world". Nor do I have to bring members of my family in for "routine fingerprinting" every time I get a demanding letter from some civil service moron. YOU figure that out before you second-guess any choice I have made.

Originally Posted by Newman

Wii- I am out of time and back to the real world. Maybe I can come back and pick up this conversation another time.

But for the record, we have different views of what it means to be American. I attach a whole lot more to it then you do. And consequently, I would not be safe making a living in Sadia Arabia even if I looked like a Muslim on the outside.

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by Walks_in_islam

I owed you an answer also sport

Originally Posted by Praxeas

ACE schools have nothing to do with busing and desegregation.

No, busing and desegratation just made churches all over realize the need for a wholesome christian education.

Our American Jihadist is not being truthful. It was YOU who first said we Christians despised or some other word prayer, fasting and some other things when I challenged you to visit a pentecostal church and ask them if they have prayer meetings and see if they despise prayer. You came back with negative accusation about Pentecostals, saying that the youth all grope each other...used the derogatory "Pennycostal" to which I replied and in an exchange I later quoted from studies pointing to beastiality among Islamic youth in some nations as well as some other things.

OH I am being truthful. I said the last time I saw a group of pennycostals it was in lazer-tag and they were spending their time groping each other. The time before that it was a group of them having a halloween party. They rented my parent's horse stable for it which is why I actually KNOW what y'all do in your spare time. I SAID We do not grope each other in public (especially unmarried) nor do we celebrate halloween - THEN said you are not conservative enough for us. Call that tripe or not.

You don't even read what I was responding to. When I said you were not being truthful I was referring to your attempt to make it seem like I started it all with teh goat stuff when in fact I pointed out it started with your rants about Christians despising prayer and fasting etc etc

Now you go and pick through any other posts and pick out the word "despise" and then cut and paste it right here. I'll just sit and wait for that.

You used the word distasteful and I pointed out that was untrue and that if you wanted to see if Pentecostals find prayer distasteful go to a prayer meeting and see if that is true. Then you started in with the groping stuff. From there it all went downhill

The more you posted such tripe the more I just posted pictures of goats. That is the story, beginning with your swipe at Christians

Many of not MOST Muttlims were slave owners. Pentecostals have more than any other Christian denomination BROKEN the color barrier

Probably the "black evangelism" you guys are doing

Oh yeah, like Muslims don't convert black people. Good grief

That is not segregation. Pentecostals have outreaches to various ethnics. If they were segregated there would be no black evangelism. Most of your posts are and have been cheap shots, but you blame others for doing so.

If they were color-blind there would be no black evangelism. When you separate "evangelism" by skin color that is a form of segregation.

No it's not. That is beyond absurd. Our churches are mixed churches precisely because we DO advocate outreach to all races beside just white

That is a sweeping generalizatoin. The religious right includes people who are religious and whose political views are right of center....they do not all HATE Obama but they certainly would rather NOT have a liberal President. That the pick at his words does not indicate hate.

More racism. Who keeps bringing up race? You do. Newman is right

I noted it in your church website and have not let it go since, that is true.

You are the only one fixated on race here, nobody else brings it up as an issue.

Uh, no Mr Muttlim. Pentecostals and ACE reps are not "all white". ACE is not a school. ACE is a school program people can use, even BLACKS to teach their kids at home or in a private school setting. White Pentecostals hardly make up the religious right. More like SOUTHERN BAPTIST make that up. Your racism is obvious.

I call what I see and I saw all-white ACE schools springing up all over when the busing started. Though I noted that every large pennycostal church that I was aware of had one pennycostals are by far not alone in segregating themselves from the poor or brown.

Again ACE is a PRIVATE school network, they don't start schools. Private citizens or groups start them. So it's not ACE. It's whoever started the school.

You are color focused. You keep bringing up color, in a inflammatory or negative way...to imply racism.

Nice try