Contract Question - Page 19

*AQuietPlace* · #**181** 02-25-2009, 04:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sherri

So, D4T, do you think it's ok to sign a membership covenant? I thought all OP churches had membership covenants.

Ours doesn't.

Sherri · #**182** 02-25-2009, 04:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by *AQuietPlace*

Ours doesn't.

So how do you become a voting member? Legally, I thought there had to be a membership roll.

Pressing-On · #**183** 02-25-2009, 04:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sherri

So how do you become a voting member? Legally, I thought there had to be a membership roll.

A membership roll and a covenant contract are two different things. A membership roll just has your signature for voting, etc.

Digging4Truth · #**184** 02-25-2009, 04:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sherri

So how do you become a voting member? Legally, I thought there had to be a membership roll.

Our doesn't either... I have never attended a church that did.

A voting member is generally stated in the by laws as someone who supports the church financially, attends regularly etc.

The covenant/contract that we are speaking of in this thread isn't for the purpose of being a voting member... at least as I understand it... it is for the purpose of being allowed to minister.

I am 45 years old and have attended over 1/2 dozen churches in 3 states in my lifetime and have never seen a membership covenant/contract presented at even one of those churches and I have been involved in ministry of one kind or another in every single one of those churches.

*AQuietPlace* · #**185** 02-25-2009, 04:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sherri

So how do you become a voting member? Legally, I thought there had to be a membership roll.

I don't know.

I never thought much about it. When there's something to be decided, like buying property or whatever, the men have a meeting. I really don't know how it's officially done. I do know that our church is set up legally, but I really haven't paid much attention to that part of it, honestly.

Pressing-On · #**186** 02-25-2009, 04:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Digging4Truth

Our doesn't either... I have never attended a church that did.

A voting member is generally stated in the by laws as someone who supports the church financially, attends regularly etc.

The covenant/contract that we are speaking of in this thread isn't for the purpose of being a voting member... at least as I understand it... it is for the purpose of being allowed to minister.

I am 45 years old and have attended over 1/2 dozen churches in 3 states in my lifetime and have never seen a membership covenant/contract presented at even one of those churches and I have been involved in ministry of one kind or another in every single one of those churches.

I've been in one church that had you sign the contract in order to also be a voting member. Nothing to the extent of this thread's contract.

At our church, you need to sign the books to be a voting member.

Sherri · #**187** 02-25-2009, 04:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Digging4Truth

Our doesn't either... I have never attended a church that did.

A voting member is generally stated in the by laws as someone who supports the church financially, attends regularly etc.

The covenant/contract that we are speaking of in this thread isn't for the purpose of being a voting member... at least as I understand it... it is for the purpose of being allowed to minister.

I am 45 years old and have attended over 1/2 dozen churches in 3 states in my lifetime and have never seen a membership covenant/contract presented at even one of those churches and I have been involved in ministry of one kind or another in every single one of those churches.

We have always had a membership covenant and a ministry covenant. The membership one was in existence way back when we were still UPC (almost 20 years ago). We have revised it through the years, but we keep a file to know who are the voting members. If it ever came down to a legal thing, we have the covenants signed in the office.

And yes, I agree that this is not the same thing being discussed here. I just wondered if you were against Membership signing, as well as the Ministry one.

Digging4Truth · #**188** 02-25-2009, 04:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sherri

We have always had a membership covenant and a ministry covenant. The membership one was in existence way back when we were still UPC (almost 20 years ago). We have revised it through the years, but we keep a file to know who are the voting members. If it ever came down to a legal thing, we have the covenants signed in the office.

And yes, I agree that this is not the same thing being discussed here. I just wondered if you were against Membership signing, as well as the Ministry one.

Yes ma'am...

I wonder if we could discover... with folks' input... if a membership covenant is more of a northern/southern thing or if there are any other factors involved in some people seeing this as common and some folks having never seen it?

Sherri · #**189** 02-25-2009, 04:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Digging4Truth

Yes ma'am...

I wonder if we could discover... with folks' input... if a membership covenant is more of a northern/southern thing or if there are any other factors involved in some people seeing this as common and some folks having never seen it?

Hmmmm......could make a difference. I don't remember what we had when I was in Illinois as a kid, because I was too young to pay attention to it and I left there at 17 to move South.

All I know is that when we moved to our first church in TN in 1984, there was a Membership covenant in place (UPC church), which has now become our Ministry covenant. Our Membership one is less stringent, basically just saying that you will be faithful and pray for the leadership, etc. etc.

Theophil · #**190** 02-25-2009, 04:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TRFrance

Well, lets take "Jim" for example. Solid Christian. Faithful tithe giver. Productive soul winner, etc.

Now lets say "Jim" has been the Minister of Music at XYZ Pentecostal Church for the past 8 years, and his church now decides to requires him to sign a contact. Since Jim disagrees with 1 of the 20 points in the contract, he decides that he can not sign it in good conscience, and explains why to his pastor.

Jim is now forced to step down from his ministry, and either
1/sit on the pews and not do much, or
2/ uproot his family and look for another church that might need a minister of music. His wife, a Sunday School teacher, also leaves with him, so the church loses a good SS teacher, and his two kids are also taken away from the church's Youth Group which they've been active in.

Maybe you don't think anyone is being injured in that situation, but I sure do. Is the body of Christ well-served when this type of scenario takes place? Personally, I think not.

Exactly right! I think these affirmation statements spring from small, insecure minds...especially the one UPC ministers are REQUIRED TO SIGN. JMO.