David Bernard Weighs In on General Board Decision

[SDG]

Originally Posted by ManOfWord

Now, c'mon, Dan! You know you're just making all this up!!!

I'd say it's a well kept secret racket but that might be seen as bashing.

[ManOfWord]

Originally Posted by Pressing-On

I'm sure they do, MOW. You seem to be a pretty laid back person to converse with. I'm a little teary about all of this conversation and I guess I need to stay out of it and I will.

Just remembering when I've been in these type conflicts and God has specifically spoken to me - "The Lord shall fight for you, and ye shall hold your peace."

Since you gave such large room for expression - that is mine.

I appreciate you, MOW!

Bowing out.......

Thank you. I know that for some reading these things is painful (because they lived it) and to others, they just refuse to believe any of it. Let me say that none of the comments here have been intended to tear anything down nor impugn anyone. However, when we can no longer discuss things that happen in our lives, we have indeed become BORG!

Like AE, stated, there are MANY servant leaders in the org and to deny that would be to just blatantly lie. However, to deny the other would be to blatantly lie as well. These things can be discussed in a civil manner and I see no one here becoming personal or wanting to destroy others. That is my point. These people have or are trying to move on, wounded though they might be. This forum is therapeutic to many just being able to read these posts and being able to express themselves and know that they weren't the only ones.

For the record, I do NOT want to see the org come crashing down. I really don't know if it is capable of reform. There are so many things which are entrenched. Time will tell, I guess.

[Jehoram]

Originally Posted by Daniel Alicea

Do nationals pony up for to entirely fund Foreign Missions? Do the kiddies fund S.S.? Would the Youth Dept survive if Sheaves for Christ could only target the deep pockets of their youth?

If the plan is to have one exec ... then treat him like a PIM. Let him go to all the churches in the org .. w/ help from the regional directors and collect funding for this proposed division by seeking partners

From your perspective and posts thus far... this seems to be a move to placate a burgeoning, demanding segment rather than to seriously explore the wonderful outreach opportunities this could offer the entire fellowship ... there are scores of English speaking churches that want the training and resources to reach Spanish speakers in their communities ... and of the 500 churches you speak of many of the Spanish churches are really just daughter works of English speaking churches that are collecting tithes from them and often not compensating or under-compensating their Spanish pastors.

If this is the attitude behind this ... expect this to back fire ... for years there have been rumblings of a split ... and there have been splinters ... but if the bill is just solely handed to the Spanish churches ... why have middle man?

I agree.

Why wouldn't those Spanish churches just go ahead and do their own thing?

[SDG]

Originally Posted by Alter Ego

I agree.

Why wouldn't those Spanish churches just go ahead and do their own thing?

Because most are very loyal to the org ... but there have been grumblings for years .. and some have left to start there own thing...

if the powers that be handle this division thing as a yo-yo .... they will frustrate a group that is frustrated in many ways already.

I'm so glad that I'm now so detached from this stuff ... Imagine if other divisions were given this task ????

It's either an org division that has the chance to be fully funded by all it's constituents or why do it?

But if it's no dinero ... then no division ... it sounds like this is not going to work. Almost as if it's set up to never happen.

[SDG]

Originally Posted by TrueNorth

Possibly - although I am not quite as cynical as you.
First - let's wait and see if the Spanish churches pony up. It's a long ways from being a done deal.

I love it.

[ChicagoPastor]

Originally Posted by Daniel Alicea

Because most are very loyal to the org ... but there have been grumblings for years .. and some have left to start there own thing...

if the powers that be handle this division thing as a yo-yo .... they will frustrate a group that is frustrated in many ways already.

I'm so glad that I'm now so detached from this stuff ... Imagine if other divisions were given this task ????

It's either an org division that has the chance to be fully funded by all it's constituents or why do it?

But if it's no dinero ... then no division ... it sounds like this is not going to work.

I want to add my 2 cents but I need to go back and read and see how the conversation turned to Spanish Ministry...

Again, I need to read through the thread, but since I started typing.
#1 I'm IN FAVOR of the Spanish division or dept.
#2 Time to stop looking at Spanish minsitries as some "daughter work" Spanish Ministries is NOT a 'home missions work' anymore. It is the fastest growing segment of the UPCI.
#3 If this doesn't go through, eventually there will be a split.

[SDG]

Originally Posted by ChicagoPastor

I want to add my 2 cents but I need to go back and read and see how the conversation turned to Spanish Ministry...

Again, I need to read through the thread, but since I started typing.
#1 I'm IN FAVOR of the Spanish division or dept.
#2 Time to stop looking at Spanish minsitries as some "daughter work" Spanish Ministries is NOT a 'home missions work' anymore. It is the fastest growing segment of the UPCI.
#3 If this doesn't go through, eventually there will be a split.

TN, seems to have some inside info that the bill will be placed in the hands of Spanish churches .... as if other divisions are structured and funded in this manner.

What say ye, CP? You and I have been around this all our lives .... we know that the stakes are high. I sure hope the GB does too.

The split would come from very good and loyal men ... that would be sad.

[A_PoMo]

Originally Posted by ManOfWord

Like AE, stated, there are MANY servant leaders in the org and to deny that would be to just blatantly lie. However, to deny the other would be to blatantly lie as well. These things can be discussed in a civil manner and I see no one here becoming personal or wanting to destroy others. That is my point. These people have or are trying to move on, wounded though they might be. This forum is therapeutic to many just being able to read these posts and being able to express themselves and know that they weren't the only ones.

For the record, I do NOT want to see the org come crashing down. I really don't know if it is capable of reform. There are so many things which are entrenched. Time will tell, I guess.

Until people starting telling the truth about what is happening and WHO is doing it then nothing will change. There's way too much "respecting" going on which is not much more than looking the other way and not holding people in positions of responsibility accountable for their actions. Personally, I think the issues are systemic and don't hold out much hope for real reform of any kind.

[J-Roc]

Originally Posted by A_PoMo

Until people starting telling the truth about what is happening and WHO is doing it then nothing will change. There's way too much "respecting" going on which is not much more than looking the other way and not holding people in positions of responsibility accountable for their actions. Personally, I think the issues are systemic and don't hold out much hope for real reform of any kind.

Good thoughts there, A PoMo!

[Jehoram]

Originally Posted by A_PoMo

Until people starting telling the truth about what is happening and WHO is doing it then nothing will change. There's way too much "respecting" going on which is not much more than looking the other way and not holding people in positions of responsibility accountable for their actions. Personally, I think the issues are systemic and don't hold out much hope for real reform of any kind.

Please explain this statement.