Does Everyone Live Forever?

[votivesoul]

Originally Posted by TulsaDavid

There will never be a "know nothing" in the lake of fire. That is so contradictory to the principle of judgment and punishment, to conjure that it will be imperceptible to those being punished. "An abhorrence to the living righteous"??? Their tears will be wiped away. Where are you getting these ideas, guys? Come on.

The punishment is everlasting destruction. Nothing can be destroyed eternally as an on-going activity. Once something is destroyed, it's destroyed. You can't make something drenched in water any wetter than it already is. Same with destroyed. Once something is destroyed, it's destroyed.

Finally, the corpses of the unrighteous dead being an abhorrence has nothing to do with tears being wiped away. The tears of Revelation 21:4 are in regards to tears of sorrow and loss which occurred in this life.

But in the resurrection, the righteous will, as much as God does, without the carnality of our emotions clouding our judgment, despise the unrighteous who warred against our God and hated His Christ, and we will abhor them, not bawl tears of sorrow for them.

Or if not, then Isaiah 66:24 as it relates to Mark 9:43-48 and is fulfilled in Revelation 21:8 is a false prophecy.

[TulsaDavid]

Everlasting destruction does not mean everlasting nothingness. It is destruction worse than anything physical, eternal damnation in a lake of fire. There is no definition of destruction any stronger. The corpses being an abhorrence was a silly argument introduced to infer that the horror of torments is experienced by the righteous, which is silly. Nothing falsifies any prophesy. The unceasing torment is simply truth and fact.

[votivesoul]

Originally Posted by TulsaDavid

My lands, if you have to ask, not realizing the rich man in hell was NOT a parable, not knowing that we will be as the angels, not knowing that the torment of those in the lake of fire is unceasing from the eons of eons, then we may not have much ground for discussion. I assume you realize these things. I also assume you realize that the definition of death of a soul is not nothingness, but eternal separation from life, as defined by scripture as eternal salvation. The lake of fire IS the second death. They inhabitants will be quite cognizant and in unceasing torture.

Don't you see how this impugns God's righteousness?

You have God, who is love, mercilessly, endlessly, intentionally, beyond all bounds and limitations of control, causing unceasing torture for eternity.

Even a lifetime of heinous sin only merits an equal judgment or verdict rendered against it. The punishment fits the crime. That is clear all throughout the Bible. Not all crimes or sins were of a capital offense nature. Jesus remarked about those ignorant of God's will who will receive less of a whipping than the ones who were cognizant of God's will.

And yet, in the resurrection of the unjust, God loses His mind and decides He is going to make sinners suffer for as long as He exists? Think about that for a moment.

For the rest of God's existence, the sinners will be in constant, unending, equal to God's own eternity, torment.

You have God never relenting of His wrath or vengeance, for as long as He lives. Destroying sinners who have been judged and found wanting isn't enough. He also has to make them pay with interest, a debt they could never pay for in the first place (Jesus paid it all???) for the rest of His existence, just to prove a point.

[votivesoul]

Originally Posted by TulsaDavid

According to the tale of annihilation, it's only temporary. After that you don't feel a thing. No more punishment. Live like you want. Sin all you want. Burn for a while. Then no more. Sounds like a deal for the world.

The punishment is not merely the everlasting destruction. It's the realization before you are destroyed eternally that you could have had eternal life with your Creator and Savior, and you gambled it all away for the sake of the world.

[TulsaDavid]

Originally Posted by votivesoul

The punishment is not merely the everlasting destruction. It's the realization before you are destroyed eternally that you could have had eternal life with your Creator and Savior, and you gambled it all away for the sake of the world.

Now that is well said. It will be terrible enough to be tormented unceasingly for all eternity. Add to that missing eternal fellowship with Jesus Christ, the church of the living God and all the good things He has in store for the righteous, and we're talking an infinite whammy.

[votivesoul]

Originally Posted by TulsaDavid

Everlasting destruction does not mean everlasting nothingness. It is destruction worse than anything physical, eternal damnation in a lake of fire. There is no definition of destruction any stronger. The corpses being an abhorrence was a silly argument introduced to infer that the horror of torments is experienced by the righteous, which is silly. Nothing falsifies any prophesy. The unceasing torment is simply truth and fact.

You keep using the words nothingness or annihilation. Those are not the correct words. Death is not nothingness or annihilation.

Also, the corpses being an abhorrence is a reference to a direct prophecy quoted by the Lord Jesus Christ regarding hell-fire. To call something that is ABSOLUTELY germane and salient to the topic, and a prophecy quoted by Christ, no less, as a silly argument, is beyond belief.

[votivesoul]

Originally Posted by votivesoul

You keep using the words nothingness or annihilation. Those are not the correct words. Death is not nothingness or annihilation.

Also, the corpses being an abhorrence is a reference to a direct prophecy quoted by the Lord Jesus Christ regarding hell-fire. To call something that is ABSOLUTELY germane and salient to the topic, and a prophecy quoted by Christ, no less, as a silly argument, is beyond belief.

But I will give you the benefit of the doubt on this one. Please share what Isaiah 66:24 means as it relates to what the Lord Jesus said in Mark 9? What is an abhorrence to all flesh? How are these corpses an abhorrence? What is the prophetic or symbolic significance of these things?

[TulsaDavid]

Originally Posted by votivesoul

You keep using the words nothingness or annihilation. Those are not the correct words. Death is not nothingness or annihilation. Also, the corpses being an abhorrence is a reference to a direct prophecy quoted by the Lord Jesus Christ regarding hell-fire. To call something that is ABSOLUTELY germane and salient to the topic, and a prophecy quoted by Christ, no less, as a silly argument, is beyond belief.

The topic title "does everyone live forever" has been about MTD postulating a hypothesis that the wicked are destroyed into everlasting nothingness, aka, annihilation, i.e., complete and utter ceasing to exist, to be, however you want to grasp it. I've been debunking that tale.

[TulsaDavid]

Originally Posted by votivesoul

But I will give you the benefit of the doubt on this one. Please share what Isaiah 66:24 means as it relates to what the Lord Jesus said in Mark 9? What is an abhorrence to all flesh? How are these corpses an abhorrence? What is the prophetic or symbolic significance of these things?

I answered the abhorrence reference earlier. It was a response to a spin that part of the torment of eternity will be the abhorrence of the smoke to the eternal righteous. Not quite sure that is the case.

As to Isaiah 66:24, which literally says, “And they go out and look at the corpses of the men that have rebelled against me, for their worm will not die and their fire will not be quenched, and they become an abomination to all flesh.”

This follows from 66:18 regarding the enemies of Jerusalem gathered together against it. This strongly points to the last insurrection of God and Magog. In Isaiah 66 if you trace Tubal and Javan given in Ezekiel 28, they connect to Gog and Magog. This strongly points to that last insurrection in Rev 20:7-10.

It's one thing to look upon the corpses of those who transgressed (the physical body). It's quite another to realize their fire is never quenched, they are an abhorrence to all flesh (which may mean those living on the New Earth, not the New Jerusalem, i.e., the nations of the earth) during that time. That is another topic altogether (that there may be procreation and increase in the New Earth).

One thing for sure. There is no rest, nor shall ever be, with the wicked.

Sorry for the long dissertation. I try not to answer lengthy. It's boring, as I seldom read anyone's lengthy answers.

[Michael The Disciple]

Originally Posted by TulsaDavid

Well, you can go around that mountain as many times as you like, but you won't change the definition of the lake of fire as the very final death meted to the lost. You also won't change that it is an ever-non-ceasing torture for the eons of eons. And Revelation is quite explicit about trying to change that. The devil will be tormented without end, the demons without end, the lost humanity without end, period. No exceptions. No getting around a definitive final death being an unceasing lake of fire.

The Holy Ghost gives us the true definition of death.

Psalms 146:2-4

2While I live will I praise the LORD: I will sing praises unto my God while I have any being.

3Put not your trust in princes, nor in the son of man, in whom there is no help.

4His breath goeth forth, he returneth to his earth; in that very day his thoughts perish.

The living have BEING.

The dead have nothing. No thoughts no being.

The dead are not alive. Immortality is given to the saints not the sinners. Romans 2:7. Please read.