Reading Fudge's Book Again

[Steve Epley]

Originally Posted by Sam

Anybody ever hear of a minister named C.C. Gosey? He died in February 1990 at the age of 90. I don't know if he was UPC or not. He lived in Norfolk, VA but had a sister or some family in Cincinnati, OH. He published books and a chart (like the Larkin Charts) that was available from the UPC Publishing house. One time while preaching at our ALJC church in the nineteen seventies he said that trinitarian and oneness folks actually believer the same but they just explain it differently.

Boy was he confused. I wouldn't want to use his charts.

[AGAPE]

Originally Posted by Sam

If I remember correctly, Dan Alicia has the Fudge book available as a pdf file and might be persuaded to email a copy as an attachment to someone who asks.

Hey Dan oh Dan...wanta be nice to a conservative today???

Hey Dan

[Esther]

Originally Posted by Steve Epley

Boy was he confused. I wouldn't want to use his charts.

Some do some don't, you can't broad brush this one.

[AGAPE]

Ask em this

"When we get to heaven will we see Jesus as God or will we see 3 different beings?"

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by AGAPE

Ask em this

"When we get to heaven will we see Jesus as God or will we see 3 different beings?"

Better still, ask if 'em if they believe Jesus, and His Father and the Holy Ghost were eternally aware of each other and eternally communed with each other and eternally loved each other. THAT is the difference between Oneness and Trinitarianism.

[Barb]

Originally Posted by pelathais

Yes. I remember as the elder sat in my father in law's (to be) parsonage office many years ago. I asked him point blank about his outline. He down played most of it and deflected my questions. This was the only occassion that I had ever met him. My FIL wanted me to produce some material that went along with the elder's work. I declined to be involved without more and better information. You probably heard about the outcome of the event that followed. I stayed at my parent's home and buried my head in my pillow. Literally.

Once again, I thank you for your candid response...

To some, what I am going to say may cause me to seem daft, yet I cannot help but believe that a remnant of the Church of the living God prevailed through every century.

It is beyond my human reasoning to imagine that the Church was somehow resurrected in the dawn of the 20th century.

[pelathais]

Originally Posted by Barb

Once again, I thank you for your candid response...

To some, what I am going to say may cause me to seem daft, yet I cannot help but believe that a remnant of the Church of the living God prevailed through every century.

It is beyond my human reasoning to imagine that the Church was somehow resurrected in the dawn of the 20th century.

I agree with you, Sister. It's just that some have tried to prove that the Apostolic teachings existed in groups that were clearly not Apostolic. This tends to weaken our position in the eyes of other Christian groups.

We need to kind of "police" ourselves and critically question somethings that are put forth from our midst. That way we don't have people and churches being hurt when the Baptists or Evangelical writers come along.

[pelathais]

Originally Posted by Barb

Once again, I thank you for your candid response...

To some, what I am going to say may cause me to seem daft, yet I cannot help but believe that a remnant of the Church of the living God prevailed through every century.

It is beyond my human reasoning to imagine that the Church was somehow resurrected in the dawn of the 20th century.

Thomas Fudge makes this case in his book as well. There was and always has been a complex flow of ideas and thoughts.

To try and force "The Church" into some sort of continuous "Orthodoxy" that was maintained throughout history (like many of the Trinitarian Apologists do) is equally inaccurate. The history and writings of the "Church Fathers" often reads like a shrill debate on any of today's Internet boards.

Can we go a different way? Can anyone come forward and say that their family was not Catholic or some other religion 100 years ago? 200 years ago? etc...

[pelathais]

Originally Posted by Sheltiedad

Can we go a different way? Can anyone come forward and say that their family was not Catholic or some other religion 100 years ago? 200 years ago? etc...

How about this...

When I signed on to the UPC one thing that influenced me was that among the Required Reading was a Bible Study by John Dearing where he used Romans 4:17 to show that his Trinitarian grandmother was not lost. Because of this I felt that the UPC's stand was that Trinitarians were not automatically "lost."

With the change in the Required Reading and the way the AS was put through, over time I began to see that the UPC had changed it's position. We now were saying that John Dearing's grandmother is lost. A founder of our movement (of course from the PCI side *shudder*) had some consolation in the fate of his loved ones. We take that consolation away with our revisionism.

That poor old lady; died before the revelation of Jesus name baptism and the Mighty God in Christ. We used to cut her some slack. Now we send her to hell.