Moses was unfaithful when called

[jediwill83]

Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa

Universalism “ apokatastasis” means God returns everything to its original state.
Which means everyone including Satan, and demons. All is restored to a pristine condition.

Wether you want it or not no effort on your part.

You get a pass to Heaven.

Not really big on the "harp n cloud" idea of Heaven....isnt there supposed to be a "new heaven and a new earth"? Is that one completely different than this one or does it point to a theme of "restoration"?

[Amanah]

"The meek shall inherit the earth" (Psalm 37:11, Matthew 5:5), a promise that echoes through scripture. This inheritance is tied to the arrival of the New Jerusalem which "comes down from heaven to earth" (Revelation 21:2-4), marking the culmination of God's redemptive plan.

In this restored creation, we find ourselves returned to the Tree of Life (Revelation 22:1-2, Ezekiel 47:12), a symbol of eternal life through the cross and fellowship with God. This restoration is part of the broader promise of "the restoration of all things" (Acts 3:21), where God reconciles all creation to Himself through Jesus Christ.

In this future, the earth is renewed, and peace, justice, and righteousness reign (Isaiah 11:1-9, Isaiah 65:17-25). The meek, who have trusted in God and lived according to His ways, will inherit this transformed earth, experiencing the fullness of God's presence and blessing.

[donfriesen1]

Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa

You referred me to https://www.apostolicfriendsforum.co...&postcount=141

Where you offered Revelation 22:15, Revelation 21:8 and Revelation 7.
There is no hierarchical system found anywhere in the chapter 7, let alone Revelation 22:15, and Revelation 21:8. You have the sinners outside the gates of New Jerusalem. Gates which never close, therefore giving access to those on the outside to repent and enter in. Those tribulation martyrs have washed their garments in the blood of Christ and worship Him in the Body of Christ. It isn't literal it's symbolic.

I agree, you absolutely not only have no unique ability. But you have no ability to comprehend the soteriology of the New Testament. Also your literalizing of Biblical prophetic symbolism has you seeing things which the original writer never dreamed.

Jesus was against a hierarchical system among His apostles. Matthew 20:23-26. In 1 Corinthians 12 explains that there is one body but many members. That while each member has it's own particular duty, no one can be without the other. Also no one is better than the other. There is no schism in the Body. Therefore if it is this way with the followers of Christ, it wouldn't be that way in heaven. Like they won't be placing you over the nursery in heaven.

So, if you amen me on there are only two groups, winners and losers. How can you teach that there are different levels in eternity?

That there are winners and losers indicates 2 different levels. Often results of a race indicate first, second, third and last.

That one is seated on the right and one on the left of the throne indicates at least 4 levels. The one in the middle, those on the sides, those not seated.

That their are varying rewards given indicates different levels.

Whether those martyrs who follow the Lamb are symbolic or not doesn't change the fact that they are privileged to follow the Lamb about and some not, again indicating levels.

The body has many members, differing in their abilities by large degrees. This indicates varying levels.

Mt 20 doesn't indicate an impossibilty of one being the chief, just the means of achieving it.

When I referred to Revelation 22:15, Revelation 21:8 and Revelation 7, I did not detract from their symbolic nature, as you say I did. Plz quote where I did. Nor did I use Re 21, 22 to refer to the possibility that there are levels/hierarchy in those in heaven. It was done to answer Amanah's question.

Reader, I may never catch up to the knowledge and abilities that Benincasa has, but Dom wasn't rested when he wrote his reply. We can overlook an occasional lapse.

[donfriesen1]

Originally Posted by donfriesen1

part 1.

Wow, the AFF server has taken out the majority of capital letters and made them lower case.

[donfriesen1]

Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa

This video covers how the early "Church Fathers" believed in Universalism "apokatastasis." While some search the through history to find "early Christians" who agree with their doctrines. You'll find that these early Christians had some Gnostic views, which went from mild to wild. Don, isn't an anomaly in Pentecostalism, or in Christianity. It's not like these individuals were face on the floor in a prayer room and gained a tear, n snot soaked revelation. They draw conclusions by reading certain passages out of context. Just like early heretics "church fathers" did the same.

www.youtube.com/watch?v=MwrmoB8JGsI&t=946s

nc

[donfriesen1]

Originally Posted by jediwill83

Not really big on the "harp n cloud" idea of Heaven....isnt there supposed to be a "new heaven and a new earth"? Is that one completely different than this one or does it point to a theme of "restoration"?

nc

[donfriesen1]

Originally Posted by Amanah

"The meek shall inherit the earth" (Psalm 37:11, Matthew 5:5), a promise that echoes through scripture. This inheritance is tied to the arrival of the New Jerusalem which "comes down from heaven to earth" (Revelation 21:2-4), marking the culmination of God's redemptive plan.

In this restored creation, we find ourselves returned to the Tree of Life (Revelation 22:1-2, Ezekiel 47:12), a symbol of eternal life through the cross and fellowship with God. This restoration is part of the broader promise of "the restoration of all things" (Acts 3:21), where God reconciles all creation to Himself through Jesus Christ.

In this future, the earth is renewed, and peace, justice, and righteousness reign (Isaiah 11:1-9, Isaiah 65:17-25). The meek, who have trusted in God and lived according to His ways, will inherit this transformed earth, experiencing the fullness of God's presence and blessing.

nc

[donfriesen1]

What does the concept presented do with the concept of free will? Some now decide to reject Jesus and some accept Jesus. If this concept is true then, in the end all will get Jesus whether they want to or not. Thus, this concept refutes one of the first concepts shown in the Bible - free will.

How about someone starting a new thread to discuss apokatastasis?

[Amanah]

Originally Posted by donfriesen1

what does the concept presented do with the concept of free will? Some now decide to reject jesus and some accept jesus. If this concept is true then, in the end all will get jesus whether they want to or not. Thus, this concept refutes one of the first concepts shown in the bible - free will.

How about someone starting a new thread to discuss apokatastasis?

no comment

[Evang.Benincasa]

Originally Posted by jediwill83

Not really big on the "harp n cloud" idea of Heaven....isnt there supposed to be a "new heaven and a new earth"? Is that one completely different than this one or does it point to a theme of "restoration"?

Yep, you get a harp n cloud with your Hawaiian gym shorts.