McMinnville pastor accused in suit of Defamation

[Steve Epley]

I was slandered I had friends that encouraged me to sue they meant well they loved me and were infuriated. But I chose to obey the scriptures. God vindicated me. It probably would not have happened had I sued. God really does fight our battles it is not a cliche.

[n david]

Originally Posted by Steve Epley

I was slandered I had friends that encouraged me to sue they meant well they loved me and were infuriated. But I chose to obey the scriptures. God vindicated me. It probably would not have happened had I sued. God really does fight our battles it is not a cliche.

Me, too. God worked it out better than I could have.

[Steve Epley]

Originally Posted by n david

Me, too. God worked it out better than I could have.

Render not evil for evil, bless them that persecute you, overcome evil with good yet works in 2015.

[CC1]

Originally Posted by Steve Epley

I was slandered I had friends that encouraged me to sue they meant well they loved me and were infuriated. But I chose to obey the scriptures. God vindicated me. It probably would not have happened had I sued. God really does fight our battles it is not a cliche.

A lot of times doing what is right is counter intuitive to our human rationale and desires. I think that is a constant tension in our lives and will be until we are in heaven.

I know the bible clearly states what we are to do in lieu of taking a brother to court. What do you think the biblical position is on taking non beleivers to court over civil injustices? (slander, theft, etc)

[Evang.Benincasa]

Originally Posted by CC1

A lot of times doing what is right is counter intuitive to our human rationale and desires. I think that is a constant tension in our lives and will be until we are in heaven.

I know the bible clearly states what we are to do in lieu of taking a brother to court. What do you think the biblical position is on taking non beleivers to court over civil injustices? (slander, theft, etc)

Turn the other cheek is only referring to believers? So therefore you can retaliate when it's an unbeliever?

Proverbs 20:22

Say not thou, I will recompense evil; but wait on the Lord, and he shall save thee.

Proverbs 24:29

Say not, I will do so to him as he hath done to me: I will render to the man according to his work.

Is the above only meant for the believers?

Interesting CC1, please continue with your thoughts. It kind of sounds a bit Talmudic. But please, carry on....

[Sabby]

Originally Posted by Steve Epley

This from someone whose religion beheads folks, slaughters infants, and flies planes into the twin towers.

ExACTly!

[Sabby]

I recognized Bill Davies. He founded the church in McMinnville over thirty years ago. He was known as a hardliner then, and apparently is now in the WPF. I don't have a dog in this fight. As a licensed UPC minister I was acquainted with Davies' FIL, Winifred Toole.

We DON'T know all the facts. If these kids were "working" to offset their tuition costs, there's a couple of things to consider. First, child labor laws, phooey. They have changed America's work ethic. I used to mow lawns, baby sit (for money), had friends pick fruit in the orchards around Hood River and the Dalles when they were kids. The principle of "earning tuition" is not lost on me here. The question I have to ask is did their parents understand that some landscaping to help defray tuition costs was part of the "deal"? If so, story is over, imo.

Suing over defamation of character is an interesting topic. The first church in no way resembled our western pastor/ceo paradigm with the pastor with complete (and I mean complete) control over the congregation, especially from what I observed in the Oregon District in years gone by. There may have been "lawsuits" similar to this one in the first church, but I sincerely doubt it. Paul the apostle wanted the church to "mark" those that cause division. I see no reason for Jim Goings to continue attending the McMinnville church except to be a burr in someone's saddle-to cause division or strife. There is a pastor right up the road in Newberg if going to a Oneness church is the criteria.
As a lay person in a 21st century pastor driven church, if Goings suffered defamation he most certainly SHOULD sue the pastor, if anything for his good name or a public apology, if in fact the defamation occurred. The scriptural mandate not to take a "brother" to court should not be likened to the clergical/laity relationship. The "clergy" as we now know it did not exist in the first century. If defamation is proven it will actually throw light on a practice that is akin to spiritual abuse.
Having observed this type of behavior first-hand is the primary reason I let my credentials expire in 1987.

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by Garbonzo

A saint in their church said in the comments section of the News Register report that Matthew Davies paid for the kids school tuition and the teens worked in return for them in trade. It was quoted in my first post. Way up there somewhere.

http://newsregister.com/article?arti...90887--17779--

Another seconded that claim. This post was from someone aware of the church but apparently not a member.

From that thread:

" orange98

Unfortunately, what happened was a violation of the labor laws but was dealt with and settled as the article suggests. I am not saying everything was dealt with perfectly but understand that these people are good people. ....... Mr. Goings attempted to stir discord in the church by taking young men and turning them against the pastors of the church who, mind you, were paying for their school tuition in return for some extra work during the summer and after school."

There is more to this post but I only quoted the sections which speak specifically to your question. Other posters also made this claim as well.

I know of a school here (Baptist not OP) that trades work for tuition. I doubt they know it is illegal which may have been the case here in my opinion.

I saw that but a comment by someone was not what i was looking for

Also if true the Pastor can prove it and should not have to pay them back. They were already compensated

[Garbonzo]

I don't think labor laws are that simple.

You can run comtrary to their requirements and not even know it.

I have a contractor friend who employs several people. One of his workers brought his eight year old to the job site in an office building on a Saturday. He told the kid that he would give him a few bucks to pick up some trash. Another office in the building happens to be the local state labor bureau office. One of the labor bearau employees stopped in after hours and saw the kid taking out trash and went crazy on them about working someone under age. It was nuts. My buddy was being nice to the kid and boom winds up breaking a law he was unaware of. It is likely we have all run afoul of the law in ignorance and sometimes we wind up facing the consequences.

We don't know all the ins and outs and a rush to judgement from those of us on the outside is simply unwise.

[Holy Ghost HH]

Sabby... First those kids where not offsetting anything as proven by BOLI. He was using them almost as slave labor. Also it wasn't "some landscaping". He received compensation from his lawn business and didn't pay any wages. We are in 2015 and we have laws we MUST obeyed. Unless you find it right to work children 60 hours a week in the summer and 30 a week in the school year and pay them nothing? Tuition was only 160 a child a month. You do the math. 9.10 an hour is about 30 or so hours a MONTH not 40 to 60 hours a week. And why did they work in the summer if school was out and no tuition was being paid hmmmm? That is dirty crooked business. I'm sure that Jesus came to them and said all of that was ok.
Bill Davies not only Defamed Mr. Goings he stated private info. Have you not read any of the postings?
As for a OP in newberg there is not one. How long have you been out of the loop? I would be going if there was.
Bill Davies a hardliner is an understatement to say the least. Anyone that studies the bible and sees a different take on a standards as you put it is "marked". So as a memeber of that church you can have no free will. Well you can but you will get disfellowship for it. Long time friends turn there back on you for sleeve length disagreement, or tithe disagreement. All are the behest of ol' Billy and Matty Davies and the pastor's wife Karen who thinks she has some type of authority.
When the church persecuted Paul he appealed to who? That's right The Law as he knew it in his day.
I for one know all the facts and the Davies are as dirty behind the scene as Jim Jones. Drink up its not that bad. It's not the people it's the headship that believes the are the victor of Christ.