Why I Am A Futurist

[good samaritan]

chilioi; plural of uncertain affinity;

When scripture says a thousand I understand that it may not be literally a thousand? If it doesn't have to mean a literal 1,000 than it could be 100,000. My thoughts is that Peter was telling us that our time and His time are not the same, but here is some of the following verses.

10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up. 11 Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness, 12 Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?

I think the key is how we live are lives and not breaking codes and symbols. Eschatology is interesting, but no one really is ever proven right. The only thing we know is that we are still awaiting His return. If your doctrine doesn't see a future return of the Lord and a resurrection of the dead than like MTD said who are we? What are we doing because if we only have hope in this life we are miserable. If this life is supposed to be heaven on earth than I feel cheated. I recently have lost several close loved ones and to experience the pain and see the grief that many of my relatives carry. This isn't the kingdom age I looking to. I look to a day when there will be no more pain, nor sorrow, no sickness, no parting, etc. I am apart of His kingdom, but there will be a future kingdom age where there are no more limitations.

[good samaritan]

And shall not God avenge his own elect, which cry day and night unto him, though he bear long with them?

This is a rhetorical question. Will not God avenge His own elect? of course He will!!!
"though he bear long with them" is a statement it is not part of the question.

Rev. 6:9 And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held:10 And they cried with a loud voice, saying, How long, O Lord, holy and true, dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth?

Jesus is bearing long with them right now I believe. I believe the Lord hears the saints before the alter at this present moment and He bears the wicked in order for others to be saved.

2 Peter 3:9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us- ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

I believe the length of time it has taken the Lord is due to His mercy. When He returns there will be no more opportunity.

Luk 18:8
I tell you that he will avenge them speedily. Nevertheless when the Son of man cometh, shall he find faith on the earth?

I believe speedily is referring to the swift work of His return. Like a thief will work in haste Jesus will come without warning when people aren't expecting. The Church will be ready.

[good samaritan]

Some are saying quickly means quickly return.

Some are saying quickly means a quick return.

I believe in this wicked time on earth it could be both.

MB I believe your kingdom teaching is making people think your are close to being full preterists, but I believe you have been really saying that we have the authority of God now and we should be walking in it. You seem to be looking for the return of the Lord the same as I, but you just feel like most things have already past and the only thing left is His return? That is how I take you and if that is correct I don't care if there has already been a great trib. or not. I have learned to be ready for anything. pray and faint not!!!

[thephnxman]

Originally Posted by good samaritan

Some are saying quickly means quickly return.
Some are saying quickly means a quick return.
I believe in this wicked time on earth it could be both.
MB I believe your kingdom teaching is making people think your are close to being full preterists, but I believe you have been really saying that we have the authority of God now and we should be walking in it. You seem to be looking for the return of the Lord the same as I, but you just feel like most things have already past and the only thing left is His return? That is how I take you and if that is correct I don't care if there has already been a great trib. or not. I have learned to be ready for anything. pray and faint not!!!

There are many prophecies, as well as promises, that have come to pass.
But the Spirit seems to be indicating, by many in diverse denoms, that there is a
persecution coming upon the Church. I am of that persuasion. There have been
dreams and visions...and they seem to be getting louder and more intense.

If nothing happens before the coming of the Lord...nothing lost: we were prepared.

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by good samaritan

2 Peter 3:8 But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day

It really doesn't matter what we think about scripture saying quickly, speedily, etc. because God's watch works different than ours. Once again that is why I don't lock in anything other than the Lord will return and there will be a judgement. Sure I believe in the fulfillment of all the prophecies in scripture, but I don't know which has and has not occurred. It's all just mostly speculation. One thing I am sure of is that the resurrection of the Church has not occurred because I am still here and I don't plan it going without me. lol.

That passage is so famously taken out of context. It is not saying any given day with God means a thousand years with us. How many times have I addressed this? Lol. It means when God prophesies something, it's no more difficult to bring to pass whether there is a day's duration to fulfillment or a thousand years. Read it again.

In my opinion it does matter when we read "quickly," because God is communicating. And if he communicate about different units than we understand, communication is a joke. No, quickly meant quickly and he had our understanding in mind when he said that.

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by good samaritan

Some are saying quickly means quickly return.

Some are saying quickly means a quick return.

I believe in this wicked time on earth it could be both.

MB I believe your kingdom teaching is making people think your are close to being full preterists, but I believe you have been really saying that we have the authority of God now and we should be walking in it. You seem to be looking for the return of the Lord the same as I, but you just feel like most things have already past and the only thing left is His return? That is how I take you and if that is correct I don't care if there has already been a great trib. or not. I have learned to be ready for anything. pray and faint not!!!

Good assessment of my view. But I think it does matter when trib occurred, because the word speaks of it, for one thing. Also it shows the issue of how much a change came between the covenants and how God will judge anyone, even his bride, as he did jerusalem if people walk in sin. It's the contrast of covenants. It's the old jerusalem versus the new. And it was a huge thing in his mind. Imagine your wife adulterating against you and plotting your death. What hurt and what astounding and utter shocking pain. No wonder JESUS wept over jerusalem.

[good samaritan]

2 Peter 3:7 But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men.
8 But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day. 9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us- ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.
10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.

I am sorry I have tried to see it the way you present, but it just doesn't register for me. I have too seen this verse applied to creation days and other things, but it still carries the same meaning God's time is not our time.

[good samaritan]

I have recently read that they estimate the book of Revelation in 95 A.D. and that would put the prophecy coming after the event and if that is a correct estimation then I don't think that would work with my theology. Now I am with you that some of the things that Jesus prophesied where probably 70 A.D. Once again I don't think anyone knows the details and even if one theological view is right they still are basing it off their observations and that doesn't mean knowing.

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by good samaritan

2 Peter 3:7 But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men.
8 But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day. 9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us- ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.
10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.

I am sorry I have tried to see it the way you present, but it just doesn't register for me. I have too seen this verse applied to creation days and other things, but it still carries the same meaning God's time is not our time.

That is only partly right. My opinion, mind you.

Here is a step b step exegesis as I see it, anyway:

We have to go back further in the chapter than you just did.

2 Peter 3:3-9 Knowing this first, that there shall come in the last days scoffers, walking after their own lusts, (4) And saying, Where is the promise of his coming? for since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation.

Notice the subject is scoffers who claim too much time passed since God promised the Lord's coming. Now, this was only decades after the cross. So in a few decades, people were scoffing the Lord's coming as being impossible since too much time elapsed already.

Obviously they felt that after a certain amount of time, God's word cannot come to pass. That is the subject.

(5) For this they willingly are ignorant of, that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of the water and in the water: (6) Whereby the world that then was, being overflowed with water, perished:

They forget that God foretold the flood that would cause the world to perish. That took place how long after God told Noah about it? 120 years! Peter's point was that Christ foretold His coming a lot less than 120 years before Peter wrote this chapter! If he could do that after 120 years, and it was not even 120 years since Jesus foretold His coming, then Jesus can still very well be coming!

Again, the issue is too much time having elapsed in the minds of the scoffers for Jesus to come.

(7) But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men.

The same word that comes from God's mouth to predict the flood that took place 120 after it was spoken, also said Christ would come. So, if the scoffers could believe God was right in foretelling the flood that took place after 120 years since it was first spoken, what is so hard about believing Christ would come and it was not yet 40 years after He spoke of that? 1/3 the time!

word (8) But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day. (9) The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

Whether it takes one day for a thing to come to pass after it's prophesied, or one thousand years, it makes no difference to God's ability to make it come to pass. Time is of no issue when it comes to whether or not God can make a promise come to pass.'

THAT is the context.

here are some scholars' words saying it better than I can:

CLARKE
...no lapse of ages impairs his purposes, nor need he wait to find convenience to execute those purposes. And when the longest period of time has passed by, it is but as a moment or indivisible point in comparison of eternity.

GILL:
...suggesting, that though between thirty and forty years had elapsed since the promise was given out that Christ would come again, and should even a thousand, or two thousand years more, run off, before the coming of Christ, yet this should be no objection to the accomplishment of the promise; for though such a number of years is very considerable among men, ye not "with God", as the Arabic and Ethiopic versions read, with whom a thousand years, and even eternity itself, is but as a day, Isa_43:13.

BARNES:
The objection was, that much time, and perhaps the time which had been supposed to be set for his coming, had passed away, and still all things remained as they were. The reply of the apostle is, that no argument could be drawn from this, for that which may seem to be a long time to us is a brief period with God. In the infinity of his own duration there is abundant time to accomplish his designs, and it can make no difference with him whether they are accomplished in one day or extended to one thousand years.

We hear too many traditional erring thoughts and it's hard to get them out of our heads when we read these passages.

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by good samaritan

I have recently read that they estimate the book of Revelation in 95 A.D. and that would put the prophecy coming after the event and if that is a correct estimation then I don't think that would work with my theology. Now I am with you that some of the things that Jesus prophesied where probably 70 A.D. Once again I don't think anyone knows the details and even if one theological view is right they still are basing it off their observations and that doesn't mean knowing.

I think you are hesitating because you know the backlash some of us got due to the AD70 issue.

We can know, brother. We can. God doesn't hold an unreachable carrot in front of our noses while riding our backs that we can never reach. He would not mention ANY DETAILS if none of them mattered and could be understood. He'd simply mention the general thought that we don't know what is ahead, but be ready for anything if that were true. But He didn't.