Social drinking?

[FlamingZword]

Originally Posted by Sister Alvear

anyone ever read the booklet called, Sipping Saints?

Yes I have and I found the author very selective in his quotations and his arguments.

anyone can build up a case by selective quoting while ignoring passages they that contradict them.

[FlamingZword]

Originally Posted by Sister Alvear

This was written
By David Wilkerson
(undated)

David Wilkerson is a Trinitarian who has actually rejected the Acts 2:38 message.

[Abiding Now]

Anyone have any idea the amount of alcohol that was in wine in NT days versus the amount of alcohol in todays wine? Anyone?

[Sister Alvear]

Originally Posted by FlamingZword

David Wilkerson is a Trinitarian who has actually rejected the Acts 2:38 message.

that does not make what he wrote about wine wrong...I knew someone would say this...however it is a very good article.

[KeptByTheWord]

Sis. Alvear, thank you for posting the writing by David Wilkerson on the subject at hand. Coming from a man who worked to help people with addictions, his thoughts should indeed be taken seriously. Perhaps he misrepresented some scriptures to bring forth his point, but many do that all the time for less serious matters. His heart certainly was distressed at the outcomes that alcohol bring to any situation.

The Bible does not lay out specific applications for every situation that we encounter, yet there are basic principles within the Word that we can apply to a situation, as well as being led by the Spirit.

Certainly there are very strong words in the Bible for drunkenness. I know quite a few people whose bodies can tolerate a lot of alcohol without noticeable effect, and others who cannot take but a few sips who come under the influence obviously. This is where it becomes a personal matter for each one of us, and honestly as children of God, we must seek to always honor the Lord in all we do.

It has been our family's decision that refraining from drinking at all is the best way for our family to handle alcohol. I don't want to expose my children to something that could become a burden that they have to carry for the rest of their lives. There is no way to know who can handle alcohol, and who can't, until that door is opened. Our family has chosen to keep that door shut, while at the same time explaining our reasoning to our children, showing them the family member, friends, and acquaintances who opened that door, and could not shut it, and the sad, sad brokenness that has resulted because of a drink here and there.

As Sean has pointed out... indulging in a little fleshly satisfaction with a drink or two may not hurt you or the next person, but what if your child takes a drink, and finds it a burden and a monkey on their back that won't go away. That would cause me sorrow for the rest of my life. I would rather abstain, than to open a door that causes someone I love to carry a burden for the rest of their lives.

[Abiding Now]

Originally Posted by KeptByTheWord

Sis. Alvear, thank you for posting the writing by David Wilkerson on the subject at hand. Coming from a man who worked to help people with addictions, his thoughts should indeed be taken seriously. Perhaps he misrepresented some scriptures to bring forth his point, but many do that all the time for less serious matters. His heart certainly was distressed at the outcomes that alcohol bring to any situation.

The Bible does not lay out specific applications for every situation that we encounter, yet there are basic principles within the Word that we can apply to a situation, as well as being led by the Spirit.

Certainly there are very strong words in the Bible for drunkenness. I know quite a few people whose bodies can tolerate a lot of alcohol without noticeable effect, and others who cannot take but a few sips who come under the influence obviously. This is where it becomes a personal matter for each one of us, and honestly as children of God, we must seek to always honor the Lord in all we do.

It has been our family's decision that refraining from drinking at all is the best way for our family to handle alcohol. I don't want to expose my children to something that could become a burden that they have to carry for the rest of their lives. There is no way to know who can handle alcohol, and who can't, until that door is opened. Our family has chosen to keep that door shut, while at the same time explaining our reasoning to our children, showing them the family member, friends, and acquaintances who opened that door, and could not shut it, and the sad, sad brokenness that has resulted because of a drink here and there.

As Sean has pointed out... indulging in a little fleshly satisfaction with a drink or two may not hurt you or the next person, but what if your child takes a drink, and finds it a burden and a monkey on their back that won't go away. That would cause me sorrow for the rest of my life. I would rather abstain, than to open a door that causes someone I love to carry a burden for the rest of their lives.

Wisdom speaks.

[jediwill83]

Originally Posted by good samaritan

In other words fresh squeezed grapes produce alcohol straight off the vine.? I don't know for fact what Jesus drank or didn't drank, but it is adding to the scripture to say that he drink alcoholic wine. You may speculate, but to say it for matter of fact is adding to what the Bible says. I have listened to uc's being called on adding to scripture to create doctrine, but some are adding to it now to advocate their own belief's also.

Why would they have to take the alcohol out when fresh juice never had it to start.

Fresh grape juice will ferment by itself in one to two weeks.There is natural yeast in the skins that break down the sugar in the juice creating alcohol.I havent looked up grape growing seasons in Mediterranean climates but unless they were pressing fresh grape juice weekly they would not have access to nonalcoholic grape juice year round.

[MawMaw]

Originally Posted by Sister Alvear

that does not make what he wrote about wine wrong...I knew someone would say this...however it is a very good article.

Agreed!

Thank you for posting the article by David Wilkerson.

[jediwill83]

Originally Posted by Abiding Now

Anyone have any idea the amount of alcohol that was in wine in NT days versus the amount of alcohol in todays wine? Anyone?

it all depends on the sugar content...the more sugar the more alcohol is produced topping out around 14% I think...higher concentrations of alcohol kill the yeast which halts the fermentation process.So in other words wine alcohol strength has pretty much remained the same...now if you fortify it with lets say mead thats a whole different animal.Mead has a much higher alcohol content and was more popular than wine because honey was so plentiful and it was possible to make sweeter drinks with a higher alcohol content.Honey became more expensive because the wealthy desired it so wine rose in popularity because it was cheaper to make.

[jediwill83]

note:I am not posting personal feelings about the topic or arguing for or against...just providing some factual information.I have friends that make their own wine and other types of alcohol.I havent myself but just for curiosities sake I have done alot of research into the processes and techniques for doing so and also the history. What I read wasn't from a religious perspective but just was facts dealing with chemistry and techniques from different cultures.