Why Do You Believe Jesus is God?

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by Walks_in_islam

What's hard, fast, and true is that this chapter does not say "Jesus is the Almighty" (nor does any other chapter or verse) but it specifically separates Jesus from God is several locations.

Yes, within the overall knowledge provided that JESUS IS ALSO ALMIGHTY, since He is Alpha and Omega. Once you see these OTHER FACTS that you refuse to acknowledge, you realize that the only answer is God manifests in flesh at the same time He remains God. the manifestation is the distinction between the GOD and the SON OF MAN.

[Sean]

Originally Posted by Walks_in_islam

The fact that you can't explain a simple basic text has nothing to do with my "mindedness" friend

I dont want to try with such a closed minded individual....a complete waste of time...you failed the test to spark my interest in trying to dialogue with you.

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by Sean

I dont want to try with such a closed minded individual....a complete waste of time...you failed the test to spark my interest in trying to dialogue with you.

He still has not explained why Jesus is Alpha and Omega, while the Alpha and Omega said he is Almighty. And he tries to say people cannot answer a simple point?

No wonder Jesus rebuked hypocrites so much.

[mfblume]

John 1:1 - THE WORD IS GOD.

Rev. 1:8 - Alpha and Omega is ALMIGHTY

Rev 1:11. Jesus is Alpha and Omega

Simple.

[mfblume]

More passages these guys will not be able to answer:

Revelation 21:6-7 KJV And he said unto me, It is done. I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end. I will give unto him that is athirst of the fountain of the water of life freely. (7) He that overcometh shall inherit all things; and I will be his God, and he shall be my son.

Jesus is the Alpha and Omega in Rev 1:11. Now he says HE WILL BE OUR GOD AND WE WILL BE HIS SONS.

Whoa!!

Revelation 1:11-13 KJV Saying, I am Alpha and Omega, the first and the last: and, What thou seest, write in a book, and send it unto the seven churches which are in Asia; unto Ephesus, and unto Smyrna, and unto Pergamos, and unto Thyatira, and unto Sardis, and unto Philadelphia, and unto Laodicea. (12) And I turned to see the voice that spake with me. And being turned, I saw seven golden candlesticks; (13) And in the midst of the seven candlesticks one like unto the Son of man, clothed with a garment down to the foot, and girt about the paps with a golden girdle.

How can he be distinguished from God and yet be the Alpha and Omega, the Almighty? Easy! The only answer is ONE PERSON OF GOD manifested in flesh as well as remaining God. THE MANIFESTATION is the distinction, not persons.

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by Walks_in_islam

The fact that you can't explain a simple basic text has nothing to do with my "mindedness" friend

That is your own situation when it comes to comparing Rev 1:8 with 1:11.

[mfblume]

Maybe this is simpler to not avoid this time:

Rev 1:8-13 KJV I am Alpha and Omega,... the Almighty. ... I am Alpha and Omega, ...And I turned to see the voice that spake with me....I saw ...one like unto the Son of man...

[Walks_in_islam]

Originally Posted by mfblume

Yes, within the overall knowledge provided that JESUS IS ALSO ALMIGHTY, since He is Alpha and Omega. Once you see these OTHER FACTS that you refuse to acknowledge, you realize that the only answer is God manifests in flesh at the same time He remains God. the manifestation is the distinction between the GOD and the SON OF MAN.

It does not say that "Jesus is Almighty" but it does say that he "did make us kings and priests to his God and Father"

It does say that the book is "A revelation of Jesus Christ, that God gave to him"

Another messenger who you say is NOT Jesus but was QUOTING god ALSO said "I am the Alpha and the Omega -- the Beginning and End -- the First and the Last" but also said "do not bow to me"

So if the message was given by God to Jesus who said it and was given by Jesus to an angel who also said it then either both are Alpha and Omega or both were delivering a message from God. I told you back in the first post that Jesus is a messenger and prophet and gave about 10 references to this then told you that Jesus was delivering a message from God in chapter 1 just like the angel was delivering a message that God gave to Jesus and Jesus sent by angel in chapter 22, all nicely explained in Rev 1:1.

Jesus is passing a message given to him, like verse 1 says he is. Either Jesus is Alpha and Omega in chapter 1 and a completely different messenger is also Alpha and Omega in chapter 22 (and there is more than one Alpha and Omega) or both were delivering the same identical message from God.

Verse 1, chapter 1 says they both were delivering the same identical message from God then the whole book describes God's place and Jesus' separate place in God's kingdom, something that you won't even approach to touch.

[Walks_in_islam]

Originally Posted by mfblume

Walks in Islam,

How many Alpha and Omegas are there?

At least two separate messengers declared themselves to be so in Rev. One of them said "do not bow to me bow to God" as he did it.

[Walks_in_islam]

Originally Posted by mfblume

More passages these guys will not be able to answer:

Revelation 21:6-7 KJV And he said unto me, It is done. I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end. I will give unto him that is athirst of the fountain of the water of life freely. (7) He that overcometh shall inherit all things; and I will be his God, and he shall be my son.

Jesus is the Alpha and Omega in Rev 1:11. Now he says HE WILL BE OUR GOD AND WE WILL BE HIS SONS.

Whoa!!

Revelation 1:11-13 KJV Saying, I am Alpha and Omega, the first and the last: and, What thou seest, write in a book, and send it unto the seven churches which are in Asia; unto Ephesus, and unto Smyrna, and unto Pergamos, and unto Thyatira, and unto Sardis, and unto Philadelphia, and unto Laodicea. (12) And I turned to see the voice that spake with me. And being turned, I saw seven golden candlesticks; (13) And in the midst of the seven candlesticks one like unto the Son of man, clothed with a garment down to the foot, and girt about the paps with a golden girdle.

How can he be distinguished from God and yet be the Alpha and Omega, the Almighty? Easy! The only answer is ONE PERSON OF GOD manifested in flesh as well as remaining God. THE MANIFESTATION is the distinction, not persons.

Nowhere is Jesus called "the Almighty" in this chapter. Saying it over and over does not make it a fact.

8 And I, John, am he who is seeing these things and hearing, and when I heard and beheld, I fell down to bow before the feet of the messenger who is shewing me these things;
9 and he saith to me, `See -- not; for fellow-servant of thee am I, and of thy brethren the prophets, and of those keeping the words of this scroll; before God bow.'
10 And he saith to me, `Thou mayest not seal the words of the prophecy of this scroll, because the time is nigh;
11 he who is unrighteous -- let him be unrighteous still, and he who is filthy -- let him be filthy still, and he who is righteous -- let him be declared righteous still, and he who is sanctified -- let him be sanctified still:
12 And lo, I come quickly, and my reward [is] with me, to render to each as his work shall be;
13 I am the Alpha and the Omega -- the Beginning and End -- the First and the Last.

Who was speaking here? Because the "Alpha and Omega" specifically distinguished himself from God

A manifestation of God does not really need a message "that God gave to him" though does He?