Apostolic Preachers

[acerrak]

Originally Posted by Falla39

1Tim. 3:16
And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.

Who was manifest in the flesh? Who was justified in the Spirit? Who preached unto the Gentiles? Who was believed on in the world and was received up into glory? GOD, (Spirit), but it was IN and THROUGH the (prepared) body of JESUS!

Jesus was the visible image of the invisible God. God IS a Spirit! That Spirit was manifest in and through the body of Jesus Christ. HE manifests Himself in and through His Body, the church, today.
God was glorified in His Son, the body prepared from the foundation of the world. The Word speaks of "when he comes to be glorifed IN his saints". The same Spirit that operated in the body of Jesus, is the same Spirit that operates in His Body, the church today. A spirit must have something or someone to operate in and through. To manifest through. I desire to always make myself available for the Holy Spirit/Ghost (same thing) to use this vessel to shine out through, to a lost and dying world.

Falla39

the word God is a mistranslation, you will notice many have since started to put the Word He. This also goes along with the other apostles speaking of Jesus being manifested in the Flesh. the reason being is the disciples was fighting a early form of docisim.

basically that Jesus was a Spirit and never really died on the cross but appeared as so he did. Infact some people actually preach that today very sad.

also what was the Name of the Spirit in Jesus?
we also discussed that verse about the body prepared, was mistranslated from the hebrew by the greek lxx i already showed you this.

Yes I agree Jesus was the express image of His Father, Just as the picture of Caeser on the coin was a express image of Caeser. both used the same way.

I mean you want to think about it the word logo is used today by many companies. Look at a football team, they will have a Logo of Nfl that represent them on that uniform.

But lets Get back to the Name of the Spirit that was inside of Jesus, the name that Jesus supported when he upheld the Shema.

isaiah 11:2
World English Bible
The Spirit of Yahweh will rest on him: the spirit of wisdom and understanding, the spirit of counsel and might, the spirit of knowledge and of the fear of Yahweh

from barnes notes
Barnes' Notes on the Bible
And the Spirit of the Lord - The Spirit of Yahweh. Chaldee, 'And there shall rest upon him the spirit of prophecy from before Yahweh.' In the previous verse, the prophet had announced his origin and his birth. In this, he proceeds to describe his extraordinary endowments, as eminently holy, pure, and wise. There can be no doubt that reference is here had to the Holy Spirit,


also lets look at
Pslams 83:18

King James Bible
That men may know that thou, whose name alone is JEHOVAH, art the most high over all the earth.

World English Bible
that they may know that you alone, whose name is Yahweh, are the Most High over all the earth.

Exodus 6:3 and I appeared to Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, as God Almighty, but by My name, YHWH, I did not make Myself known to them.

Exodus 15:3 "The YHWH is a warrior; The YHWH is His name.

God Bless

[Jay]

True, and Jesus Himself made the statement that He was the One who spoke with Abraham. This caused the Jews to desire His immediate death by stoning. It was not a pre-incarnate second person of the Trinity that spoke with Abraham, but rather the only true God who would later take on human flesh and walk with us.

Is it not written that He was given a name above every other name that at His name every knee would bow and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord to the Glory of God the Father. How is it then possible that the Father has given the Son a name greater than His own? The name Jesus means 'Jehovah/Yahweh Saves'. Thus the name never actually changed at all.

[acerrak]

Originally Posted by Jay

True, and Jesus Himself made the statement that He was the One who spoke with Abraham. This caused the Jews to desire His immediate death by stoning. It was not a pre-incarnate second person of the Trinity that spoke with Abraham, but rather the only true God who would later take on human flesh and walk with us.

Is it not written that He was given a name above every other name that at His name every knee would bow and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord to the Glory of God the Father. How is it then possible that the Father has given the Son a name greater than His own? The name Jesus means 'Jehovah/Yahweh Saves'. Thus the name never actually changed at all.

True, and Jesus Himself made the statement that He was the One who spoke with Abraham. This caused the Jews to desire His immediate death by stoning. It was not a pre-incarnate second person of the Trinity that spoke with Abraham, but rather the only true God who would later take on human flesh and walk with us.

No Jesus never said such a thing.

and im not a trinitarian, and no they wanted to stone him cause they misunderstand what Jesus was talking about. Not that He was God in the flesh. Just a few verses above this he stated I am from My father above and you are from your father below.

Is it not written that He was given a name above every other name that at His name every knee would bow and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord to the Glory of God the Father. How is it then possible that the Father has given the Son a name greater than His own? The name Jesus means 'Jehovah/Yahweh Saves'. Thus the name never actually changed at all.

The name is YHWH the last part is a adjective describing a role

The name was Given, and that name would be the saving Name for man. However it did Not change the fathers name.

4:12 (New International Version)

12 Salvation is found in no one else, for there is no other name under heaven given to mankind by which we must be saved.”

Yes God the father gave power and authority to Jesus, we confess that to the Glory of God (HIS) Father

so im not sure where you get that the name of Jesus is greater than that of the Father. the name was given under heaven for the remission of sins for mankind.

John 12:28 (jesus speaking)
New Living Translation (©2007)
Father, bring glory to your name." Then a voice spoke from heaven, saying, "I have already brought glory to my name, and I will do so again."

No doubt the name of Jesus is precious in every way its the name of of the man that brough salvation to my life.
Now Just because the name means YHWH saves that didnt make Joshua who brought the israelities across the Jordan river,God in the flesh now did it.

Again what is the name of The Spirit according to scriptures that baptized Jesus and indwelt Him..

Did Jesus baptise Jesus with Jesus just curious? what happened in the jordan river that day

[Jay]

I never said that the name of Jesus was superior. However, if the Father has a name that we can know, but He gives Jesus a name that is greater than His, has He not then abdicated His position. This is an impossibility. We know that God made Himself manifest in human flesh and took upon Himself a human name. Therefore, the name that He has taken is exalted above every other name in history as it is the only name whereby we may be saved. Thus to give glory to Jesus is to give glory to the Father without the need of an artificial Trinitarian construct.

[acerrak]

Originally Posted by Jay

I never said that the name of Jesus was superior. However, if the Father has a name that we can know, but He gives Jesus a name that is greater than His, has He not then abdicated His position. This is an impossibility. We know that God made Himself manifest in human flesh and took upon Himself a human name. Therefore, the name that He has taken is exalted above every other name in history as it is the only name whereby we may be saved. Thus to give glory to Jesus is to give glory to the Father without the need of an artificial Trinitarian construct.

again i am not a trinitarian. and you didnt answer my question about the baptism in the jordan.

also where does the bible state that Jesus name is greater than the Father? Did not Jesus Himself say My father is greater than I?

Plus please in detail decribe this adding of nature God did.


unfortunatly when the apostles reasoned from scriptured all they had was the old testament, and im sure those bereans reasoned from them to with scriptures like.

numbers 23:19

God is not a man, that he should lie, nor a son of man, that he should change his mind. Does he speak and then not act? Does he promise and not fulfill?

or

1 Samuel 15:29 He who is the Glory of Israel does not lie or change his mind; for he is not a man, that he should change his mind."

or

Hosea 11:9 I will not carry out my fierce anger, nor will I turn and devastate Ephraim. For I am God, and not man--the Holy One among you. I will not come in wrath.

Im not sure where you get this he added to his nature human nature..

Malachi 3:6 "I the LORD do not change.(a)

[Jay]

Joh 8:56-59 Your father Abraham rejoiced to see my day: and he saw it, and was glad. Then said the Jews unto him, Thou art not yet fifty years old, and hast thou seen Abraham? Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am. Then took they up stones to cast at him: but Jesus hid himself, and went out of the temple, going through the midst of them, and so passed by.

Joh 10:28-39 And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand. My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand. I and my Father are one. Then the Jews took up stones again to stone him. Jesus answered them, Many good works have I shewed you from my Father; for which of those works do ye stone me? The Jews answered him, saying, For a good work we stone thee not; but for blasphemy; and because that thou, being a man, makest thyself God. Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods? If he called them gods, unto whom the word of God came, and the scripture cannot be broken; Say ye of him, whom the Father hath sanctified, and sent into the world, Thou blasphemest; because I said, I am the Son of God? If I do not the works of my Father, believe me not. But if I do, though ye believe not me, believe the works: that ye may know, and believe, that the Father is in me, and I in him. Therefore they sought again to take him: but he escaped out of their hand,



The true context of this particular discussion is a long running discourse of several hours between Jesus and the Pharisees. He says and does things that provoke them to anger, and then He destroys their foundation. He states repeatedly that He is one with the Father, that being understood that He is the same as the Father. This is blasphemy of highest degree to the Jewish mind. This is why three times in these chapters they attempt to stone Him. They understood Him to be claiming for Himself the eternal Deity, and they wholly resented the statement having forgotten the prophecy that stated that their Messiah would have done works from a time before He was actually born.

[Jay]

Originally Posted by acerrak

again i am not a trinitarian. and you didnt answer my questions. Plus please in detail decribe this adding of nature God did.


unfortunatly when the apostles reasoned from scriptured all they had was the old testament, and im sure those bereans reasoned from them to with scriptures like.

numbers 23:19

God is not a man, that he should lie, nor a son of man, that he should change his mind. Does he speak and then not act? Does he promise and not fulfill?

or

1 Samuel 15:29 He who is the Glory of Israel does not lie or change his mind; for he is not a man, that he should change his mind."

or

Hosea 11:9 I will not carry out my fierce anger, nor will I turn and devastate Ephraim. For I am God, and not man--the Holy One among you. I will not come in wrath.

Im not sure where you get this he added to his nature human nature..

Malachi 3:6 "I the LORD do not change.(a)

You are arguing as if I believe that there are actually a human nature/spirit vs a Divine nature/Spirit. I am not talking about that at all. He took on human flesh. Adam had the same nature originally that God had but was not equal to God in any fashion. He corrupted that nature in the Fall.

I am saying that God placed, as a rule, the same limits of human flesh upon Himself by taking to Himself human flesh. The only difference is that the nature was not corrupted by sin. Thus He was like Adam his original state.

[acerrak]

Originally Posted by Jay

You are arguing as if I believe that there are actually a human nature/spirit vs a Divine nature/Spirit. I am not talking about that at all. He took on human flesh. Adam had the same nature originally that God had but was not equal to God in any fashion. He corrupted that nature in the Fall.

I am saying that God placed, as a rule, the same limits of human flesh upon Himself by taking to Himself human flesh. The only difference is that the nature was not corrupted by sin. Thus He was like Adam his original state.

we will just have to agree to disagree to that. we have gotten way off topic. it happends on these 90 post threads though

though i do like to hear Kenny marshbourn preach.. small man powerfull voice.
Anthony mangun did a great series over the tabernacle. about 8 mp3's very good to listen to..

[Jay]

Originally Posted by acerrak

we will just have to agree to disagree to that. we have gotten way off topic. it happends on these 90 post threads though

though i do like to hear Kenny marshbourn preach.. small man powerfull voice.
Anthony mangun did a great series over the tabernacle. about 8 mp3's very good to listen to..

I think that we shall have to start a new thread and see if we can hash out exactly what we are talking about. I have enjoyed our brief discussion and would like to understand exactly what you are attempting to say. We might even be closer to agreement than we think.

I have never heard of Kenny Marshourn. I have enjoyed listening to Bro. Anthony Mangun preach on a few occasions. He has always been a gifted preacher and teacher. I have also enjoyed messages by Bro. Randy Keyes. I was very privileged last year to hear Bro. Stan Gleason teach concerning answering a call to serve in the ministry and how to raise up others to lead into the future.

[UnTraditional]

Originally Posted by UnTraditional

Could you all please change the name of this forum, removing Apostolic. Many of these Jesus name haters are about as Apostolic as the desk I am typing on. It is one thing to debate smaller issues of doctrine, but when people downgrade Oneness and Jesus name, and such is not only allowed but welcomed, then the place where it is allowed is no longer Apostolic, but is Laodicea. So, please, for honesty's sake, change the name of this place.

Wish I could delete this...