What is the purpose of Hell?

[Neck]

I know this I hope I never find out the true purpose of Hell. Any takers to go and report back?

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by Neck

I know this I hope I never find out the true purpose of Hell. Any takers to go and report back?

[Neck]

To stand at the gates of hell and wonder what is on the otherside, is just a bit to far from heaven for me.

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by Neck

To stand at the gates of hell and wonder what is on the otherside, is just a bit to far from heaven for me.

They often say that Jesus spoke of Hell and judgment more than Heaven. I think God wants us to know what awaits the wicked, and his plan for the whole of creation through the ages.

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by Michael The Disciple

For something thats "who cares" you spend a lot of time attempting to refute it. To me all this "dispensationilism or not" you labor about seems a titanic waste of time. When one gets pat the little phrase "soul sleep" to realize it is the doctrine of the resurrection of the dead it becomes the most important thing I know.

If the dead rise not this is all nothing.

Part of proposing to people the need to be practical includes explaining how their views are impractical. Like I sad, soul sleep is not practical and it is not integral to resurrection. Like I said, if you and I agreed on everything except soul sleep, there would be no practical difference in our beliefs.

[crakjak]

Originally Posted by Aquila

They often say that Jesus spoke of Hell and judgment more than Heaven. I think God wants us to know what awaits the wicked, and his plan for the whole of creation through the ages.

Truth is that, by the number of times that Jesus spoke of each, he spoke of Heaven many more times. And He did not speak of Hell in the tradition view.

[mfblume]

Let's spend time on the things Jesus and the apostles taught in abundance in depth. Not just referenced briefly without detailed teachings. I believe we should preach everything they preached, and we should give as much time to any given issue compared to other issues in ratio as they did.

[NotforSale]

Originally Posted by Aquila

Hey, you're cool. I don't feel berated at all. In all honesty I'm wondering what you're ultimate point is. Can you elaborate?

There’s much to tell. My metamorphosis is simply the result of experience. Going back to my childhood, I lived in both worlds. For the first 10 years, I was enthralled with life. Our home was planted right next to a large creek, sometimes a river, where you would always find me. The place was a wonderland of nature and exploration. Alone, or with friends, my beginnings were born in God’s backyard. I would eat blackberries, catch fish, and swim in the hot summer sun. The memories are rich, and very real.

But I was soon transformed from this wonderful experience into utter darkness. I was upstairs in our home in bed, and I heard yelling downstairs. I slowly crept down the steps to find what I couldn’t believe. My father and mother were fighting, and my mother was so drunk she couldn’t get off the floor. My father told me, “I’m leaving, son”. I was in total shock. I begged him to take me with him, but to no avail. I watched him drive away, as my world came crashing to the ground, never even knowing there was a problem in our family.

This was the day I grew into man before my time. The childhood of yesterday was lost upon the sea of confusion, fear, and loneliness. My parents divorced, my mother remarried, and I went on to experience a whole new world to help me cope with the pain. I started smoking weed at 11. Drugs became an everyday affair, until I was 18. I slept with so many girls, I can’t remember the number. My brother and sister were killed in a car accident when I was 17. This traumatized me, along with numerous other experiences. So, I joined the Marines right out high school in 1978 to get away from my friends and family. I border lined on hating my stepfather, as through my teen years when he was a drunk, he would beat my mother before my eyes.

After being in the Military, I came in contact with a man who was going to a small Home Missions work of Apostolic nature. I was searching for answers, and was ripe to listen to someone with something better. I was taught One God, Jesus Name baptism, Repentance, and speaking in tongues as the evidence of receiving the Holy Ghost. I had been a Catholic all my life, but felt the Church didn’t do a whole lot of good for my family, so hey, why not try something else! I did just about everything they told me to do.

When it came to receiving the Holy Ghost, I struggled. I would go to the altar, where I was surrounded by screaming and yelling and intense “coaching”. I cried, begged, and pleaded for God to fill me. Out of the corner of my eye, I knew the pastor was watching, waiting to hear that “sign”. I fasted, I prayed, I repented, but nothing. Finally, one day in my barracks I was alone. I knelt next to my bed and began my pleading. I’ll be honest here, because I know countless other people have done the same thing. I began to speak in tongues under my own accord. I did it. I uttered words that I knew would be acceptable to the pressure of the hearers.

So, I went to church, went to the altar like always, and, you guessed it, spoke in tongues and was now labeled “SAVED”. I was elated. I was happy. But, I never forgot this day in 1979.

I was married 1 year later to a girl from my hometown who I witnessed to. We had 4 children by the time I was 25. We are still married today 29 years later, and all but 1 of our children is still alive, with children of their own.

My first pastor was very strict. I followed his ideals for quite some time, but began to question his motive. I saw very strange actions that seemed to represent a controlling by fear. Obey them, submit yourselves, The Man of God, and Hell Fire, these were a very deep part of my initial experience. A few years later, he fell into adultery and lost the church and his family. To this day, the church there has struggled over this fall of our pastor. I was bewildered. Just like when I saw my father leave. How could this happen in the place where I was told, “Peace that passes all understanding is here”?

Little did I know, this was only the beginning of much more to come. I watched one divorce after another rip through our church. I soon heard of Clergy, Pastors, and other famous people in our movement being convicted of child molestation, homosexuality, and once the Internet was born, found that pornography was a mainstay and the big secret on our pews. My daughter had a girl from our church stay the night, where the girl told her she was being molested by her father, who was a Sunday School teacher. He went to prison for this after my daughter had testified, this putting a huge stress on our family.

My real eye opener though, was when I became a pastor. We built the church here from the ground up, in one of the toughest places in the Country. In fact, it is known, the Pacific Northwest is the most difficult area in the Nation to build a church. We came with great passion to help people and to do a work for God. I went through all levels of licensing, becoming Ordained. I’ve have studied the Scripture thoroughly, spending the last 30 years covering every aspect of the Bible, wanting to know the whole truth. I have read countless books on Religion, Holiness, history, the origins of our past, and have been in very heated debates. I also spent a good 5 years of my life, writing my own book, which was a best seller in Bro Enseys Apostolic Library Builder.

Finding myself in the ministry, I was now in the back door, no longer on the pew. I was now becoming acquainted with men whom I only knew from a distance. Soon, the game plan was being played. Politics was no longer just in the White House, and I was expected to play. I was expected to conform. I was expected to look the other way. The only time I get phone calls from our District is when they want MONEY. No calls of encouragement. No calls to just say hello. Just give us your CASH.

There is so much more, but I knew our ideas about God were thwarted when I found out almost every adult woman in the last church we attended was on Anti-Depressants. I thought God was everything we needed?? What’s wrong?? The hair do, and dresses, and the smile meant nothing. The people are depressed, but are afraid to really say anything about it because we are supposed to be drinking from a well where you’ll never thirst again. Think about it; “Come on, raise those hands, praise Him, let God touch you so you can join our Prozac team.”

After all of these years, brother, I have found our method to not only be lacking, but we keep supporting lies, and this only adds to our dilemma. We look at a person who just “Spoke in Tongues”, telling them, “You got it”, after being coaxed by the altar boys under the spell of total emotion. We count people, this being our success, our power, who we are. The bigger the Church, the greater YOU are. It’s not long, the Mega Church tramples down all in its way, because Apostolics are looking for entertainment, not real life. We glorify our singers, we make our Preacher demi-gods, and forget about the lonely pastor who is working his fingers to the bone to keep the few he has.

We license men to preach the Gospel, but they are unwilling to pay any real price. They want it handed to them, the silver spoon, under the spell of another Pastor who has that large congregation. If you don’t believe me, ask one of our big churches how many men are sitting on their pews with licenses. I’m not just blowing off steam here. This is the
Truth! I know of 4 pastors recently (this year) who finally threw in the towel. These are men I know personally. They all had small works, and couldn’t handle the stress anymore. These Bible Colleges dish them out, but they won’t come to where the real need is because they are weak and afraid of real sacrifice.

Where are the MEN today?? Why are so many of our Churches young people waiting to get married?? Why can’t they hold out once they get married?? People seem to be afraid of starting families, and these people are in the Apostolic movement.

Well, you asked for it. This is just a small part of my life and the many reasons why I’ve questioned our motive and reason. It seems, and I think most would agree, we locked God into our BOX, and in turn, we lost Him! Our IDEA has failed. Our CONCEPT of God is not what it used to be. Our hearts are swayed by what MAN has made, not what GOD has made.

This is why I’m heading back to the Creek. I’m going back to my summer swimming hole, to catch fish, pick blackberries, and to feel the warm sun on my face. I lost something back there that was never meant to be lost. God made this Earth to shine with His glory, but we are too busy to notice because we have our head buried in a Book we can’t understand.

[easter]

Originally Posted by NotforSale

There’s much to tell. My metamorphosis is simply the result of experience. Going back to my childhood, I lived in both worlds. For the first 10 years, I was enthralled with life. Our home was planted right next to a large creek, sometimes a river, where you would always find me. The place was a wonderland of nature and exploration. Alone, or with friends, my beginnings were born in God’s backyard. I would eat blackberries, catch fish, and swim in the hot summer sun. The memories are rich, and very real.

But I was soon transformed from this wonderful experience into utter darkness. I was upstairs in our home in bed, and I heard yelling downstairs. I slowly crept down the steps to find what I couldn’t believe. My father and mother were fighting, and my mother was so drunk she couldn’t get off the floor. My father told me, “I’m leaving, son”. I was in total shock. I begged him to take me with him, but to no avail. I watched him drive away, as my world came crashing to the ground, never even knowing there was a problem in our family.

This was the day I grew into man before my time. The childhood of yesterday was lost upon the sea of confusion, fear, and loneliness. My parents divorced, my mother remarried, and I went on to experience a whole new world to help me cope with the pain. I started smoking weed at 11. Drugs became an everyday affair, until I was 18. I slept with so many girls, I can’t remember the number. My brother and sister were killed in a car accident when I was 17. This traumatized me, along with numerous other experiences. So, I joined the Marines right out high school in 1978 to get away from my friends and family. I border lined on hating my stepfather, as through my teen years when he was a drunk, he would beat my mother before my eyes.

After being in the Military, I came in contact with a man who was going to a small Home Missions work of Apostolic nature. I was searching for answers, and was ripe to listen to someone with something better. I was taught One God, Jesus Name baptism, Repentance, and speaking in tongues as the evidence of receiving the Holy Ghost. I had been a Catholic all my life, but felt the Church didn’t do a whole lot of good for my family, so hey, why not try something else! I did just about everything they told me to do.

When it came to receiving the Holy Ghost, I struggled. I would go to the altar, where I was surrounded by screaming and yelling and intense “coaching”. I cried, begged, and pleaded for God to fill me. Out of the corner of my eye, I knew the pastor was watching, waiting to hear that “sign”. I fasted, I prayed, I repented, but nothing. Finally, one day in my barracks I was alone. I knelt next to my bed and began my pleading. I’ll be honest here, because I know countless other people have done the same thing. I began to speak in tongues under my own accord. I did it. I uttered words that I knew would be acceptable to the pressure of the hearers.

So, I went to church, went to the altar like always, and, you guessed it, spoke in tongues and was now labeled “SAVED”. I was elated. I was happy. But, I never forgot this day in 1979.

I was married 1 year later to a girl from my hometown who I witnessed to. We had 4 children by the time I was 25. We are still married today 29 years later, and all but 1 of our children is still alive, with children of their own.

My first pastor was very strict. I followed his ideals for quite some time, but began to question his motive. I saw very strange actions that seemed to represent a controlling by fear. Obey them, submit yourselves, The Man of God, and Hell Fire, these were a very deep part of my initial experience. A few years later, he fell into adultery and lost the church and his family. To this day, the church there has struggled over this fall of our pastor. I was bewildered. Just like when I saw my father leave. How could this happen in the place where I was told, “Peace that passes all understanding is here”?

Little did I know, this was only the beginning of much more to come. I watched one divorce after another rip through our church. I soon heard of Clergy, Pastors, and other famous people in our movement being convicted of child molestation, homosexuality, and once the Internet was born, found that pornography was a mainstay and the big secret on our pews. My daughter had a girl from our church stay the night, where the girl told her she was being molested by her father, who was a Sunday School teacher. He went to prison for this after my daughter had testified, this putting a huge stress on our family.

My real eye opener though, was when I became a pastor. We built the church here from the ground up, in one of the toughest places in the Country. In fact, it is known, the Pacific Northwest is the most difficult area in the Nation to build a church. We came with great passion to help people and to do a work for God. I went through all levels of licensing, becoming Ordained. I’ve have studied the Scripture thoroughly, spending the last 30 years covering every aspect of the Bible, wanting to know the whole truth. I have read countless books on Religion, Holiness, history, the origins of our past, and have been in very heated debates. I also spent a good 5 years of my life, writing my own book, which was a best seller in Bro Enseys Apostolic Library Builder.

Finding myself in the ministry, I was now in the back door, no longer on the pew. I was now becoming acquainted with men whom I only knew from a distance. Soon, the game plan was being played. Politics was no longer just in the White House, and I was expected to play. I was expected to conform. I was expected to look the other way. The only time I get phone calls from our District is when they want MONEY. No calls of encouragement. No calls to just say hello. Just give us your CASH.

There is so much more, but I knew our ideas about God were thwarted when I found out almost every adult woman in the last church we attended was on Anti-Depressants. I thought God was everything we needed?? What’s wrong?? The hair do, and dresses, and the smile meant nothing. The people are depressed, but are afraid to really say anything about it because we are supposed to be drinking from a well where you’ll never thirst again. Think about it; “Come on, raise those hands, praise Him, let God touch you so you can join our Prozac team.”

After all of these years, brother, I have found our method to not only be lacking, but we keep supporting lies, and this only adds to our dilemma. We look at a person who just “Spoke in Tongues”, telling them, “You got it”, after being coaxed by the altar boys under the spell of total emotion. We count people, this being our success, our power, who we are. The bigger the Church, the greater YOU are. It’s not long, the Mega Church tramples down all in its way, because Apostolics are looking for entertainment, not real life. We glorify our singers, we make our Preacher demi-gods, and forget about the lonely pastor who is working his fingers to the bone to keep the few he has.

We license men to preach the Gospel, but they are unwilling to pay any real price. They want it handed to them, the silver spoon, under the spell of another Pastor who has that large congregation. If you don’t believe me, ask one of our big churches how many men are sitting on their pews with licenses. I’m not just blowing off steam here. This is the
Truth! I know of 4 pastors recently (this year) who finally threw in the towel. These are men I know personally. They all had small works, and couldn’t handle the stress anymore. These Bible Colleges dish them out, but they won’t come to where the real need is because they are weak and afraid of real sacrifice.

Where are the MEN today?? Why are so many of our Churches young people waiting to get married?? Why can’t they hold out once they get married?? People seem to be afraid of starting families, and these people are in the Apostolic movement.

Well, you asked for it. This is just a small part of my life and the many reasons why I’ve questioned our motive and reason. It seems, and I think most would agree, we locked God into our BOX, and in turn, we lost Him! Our IDEA has failed. Our CONCEPT of God is not what it used to be. Our hearts are swayed by what MAN has made, not what GOD has made.

This is why I’m heading back to the Creek. I’m going back to my summer swimming hole, to catch fish, pick blackberries, and to feel the warm sun on my face. I lost something back there that was never meant to be lost. God made this Earth to shine with His glory, but we are too busy to notice because we have our head buried in a Book we can’t understand.

NotForSale, do you think these same things don't grieve the Lord.Christians fighting amongst themselves?
Life will throw some bad curves along the way but we must not grow bitter.When Jesus was still on earth he told the disciples that the prince of this world was coming.This world has become a place that is evil.Turn on the news.People killing each other.Parents killing their children,children killing their parents and evil has grown abound.
God's presence is still here,like in the sunset you seen.God did not intend for this world to be like this.In fact in the days of Noah God regretted he ever made man.
When you talk about the back biters and gossip mongers,these people have a free will and if they choose to get caught up in the world that is a decision they have made.Which is really sad because other folks look at these carnal Christians and think"Christians are no different then us(Meaning the Lost).
There will be a new earth and a new Heaven.
As a Christian we must keep our eyes on Jesus and not let the things of this world drag us down.Then we would be like the seeds choked out by the cares of this world.

[NotforSale]

Originally Posted by easter

NotForSale, do you think these same things don't grieve the Lord.Christians fighting amongst themselves?
Life will throw some bad curves along the way but we must not grow bitter.When Jesus was still on earth he told the disciples that the prince of this world was coming.This world has become a place that is evil.Turn on the news.People killing each other.Parents killing their children,children killing their parents and evil has grown abound.
God's presence is still here,like in the sunset you seen.God did not intend for this world to be like this.In fact in the days of Noah God regretted he ever made man.
When you talk about the back biters and gossip mongers,these people have a free will and if they choose to get caught up in the world that is a decision they have made.Which is really sad because other folks look at these carnal Christians and think"Christians are no different then us(Meaning the Lost).
There will be a new earth and a new Heaven.
As a Christian we must keep our eyes on Jesus and not let the things of this world drag us down.Then we would be like the seeds choked out by the cares of this world.

Sis, Religion is making us bitter.