Hell In Question

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by Truthseeker

Not sure about this hell purifies/cleanses sinners in hell. I thought only the blood cleanses? Man, I'm not even convinced in burning hell at all.
__________________

God bless you Truthseeker. I’ve always enjoyed talking with you throughout my time here. I’m not entirely sold on Universalism…but it is VERY provocative. I love the ultimate victory is proposes. It also answers age long questions, like; How is eternal punishment for temporal sin just? What about those who never heard? Why would God create billions of people knowing they’d be tortured forever? If God can hear cries for mercy on earth…why can’t he hear them from those in Hell? Are we to rejoice while loved ones and countless others are in the greatest unending torment and torture in reality?

The refiner’s fire is a familiar theme of Scripture. In fact, it might be interesting to look into the very word “brimstone” in the Strong’s….

2303 // yeion // theion // thi'-on //

probably of 2304 (in its original sense of flashing); TDNT - 3:122,*; n n

AV - brimstone 7; 7

1) brimstone
1a) divine incense, because burning brimstone was regarded as having
power to purify, and to ward off disease

Now, read the following verse with the above understanding…

Revelation 21:8
But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.

The thought here is that the wicked and unbelieving are cast into a lake of fire that “purifies”…it’s not just fire. Its fire AND brimstone (regarded as having power to purify). Mankind’s default destination is a fiery place of burning purification (temporary or not). But Christ took our sins upon himself to save us from this agony (again rather it be temporary or not).

I find it absolutely fascinating. Lol

[Aquila]

Here's a question to ponder....

Did Christ bare the "full" penalty of our sin?

If so...why didn't he burn forever? Or if annihilationism is correct...why wasn't he destroyed forever?

Just a random thought.

[Aquila]

Here's something interesting written by Charles Pridgeon....

"The original idea of the verb [basanizo = torment] is 'to put to the test by rubbing on a touchstone,' to test some metal that looked like gold to find whether it was real or not. The meaning and usage harmonizes with the idea of divine purification and the torment which is the test to find whether there has been any change in the sufferer ... Sulphur [brimstone] was sacred to the deity among the ancient Greeks; and was used to fumigate, to purify, to cleanse and consecrate to the deity; for this purpose they burned it in their incense. In Homer's Iliad (16:228), one is spoken of as purifying a goblet with fire and brimstone. The verb derived from THEION is THEIOO, which means to hallow, to make divine, or to dedicate to a god ... To any Greek, or any trained in the Greek language, a 'lake of fire and brimstone' would mean a 'lake of divine purification.'"

I have to admit...I used to brush the idea of Universalism aside...but looking deeper into it has really been challenging and interesting.

[crakjak]

Originally Posted by Aquila

God bless you Truthseeker. I’ve always enjoyed talking with you throughout my time here. I’m not entirely sold on Universalism…but it is VERY provocative. I love the ultimate victory is proposes. It also answers age long questions, like; How is eternal punishment for temporal sin just? What about those who never heard? Why would God create billions of people knowing they’d be tortured forever? If God can hear cries for mercy on earth…why can’t he hear them from those in Hell? Are we to rejoice while loved ones and countless others are in the greatest unending torment and torture in reality?

The refiner’s fire is a familiar theme of Scripture. In fact, it might be interesting to look into the very word “brimstone” in the Strong’s….

2303 // yeion // theion // thi'-on //

probably of 2304 (in its original sense of flashing); TDNT - 3:122,*; n n

AV - brimstone 7; 7

1) brimstone
1a) divine incense, because burning brimstone was regarded as having
power to purify, and to ward off disease

Now, read the following verse with the above understanding…

Revelation 21:8
But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.

The thought here is that the wicked and unbelieving are cast into a lake of fire that “purifies”…it’s not just fire. Its fire AND brimstone (regarded as having power to purify). Mankind’s default destination is a fiery place of burning purification (temporary or not). But Christ took our sins upon himself to save us from this agony (again rather it be temporary or not).

I find it absolutely fascinating. Lol

It just keeps getting bigger, and clearer, and more awesome. God is not a tormentor, He has a divine purpose in the Creation, and it is to "...bring many "sons" to glory..." We will worship God in Spirit and in truth, when we "see" Jesus we will be like Him.

Some wonder, why do humans suffer in this life, if God is love and is our Father?

It is because He will have true sons and daughters, having experienced good and evil, we will then understand and appreciate His holiness, His goodness and His love. We will truly love Him, all will truly submit and worship Him.

No man has seen the face of God and lived. When we see His face we will all pass from death to life. He is the refiners fire, His face will be the fire that destroys all sin, evil and death, then all will truly worship Him.

The idea that anyone will refuse to worship Him is laughable, "...every knee and every mouth..." NONE WILL REJECT HIM, how can some reject true love, light and life???

[Shawn]

Sometimes it's hard to feel the love.....the world has added so much religeon and weight.

...For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light.

[Aquila]

Crakjak, ever read a book titled, The Outcome of Infinate Grace? I thought it was interesting.

[crakjak]

Originally Posted by Aquila

Crakjak, ever read a book titled, The Outcome of Infinate Grace? I thought it was interesting.

Yes, I have read "The Outcome of Infinite Grace" by Loyal Hurley, it is a very good read. It is available on www.tentmaker.org to read and also to order. I did join the TEU forum, have not posted, just been reading. Thomas Talbott and Gregory MacDonald are two UR's that I respect very much. Even though I don't agree with them on every thing.

[crakjak]

Originally Posted by Aquila

Here's a question to ponder....

Did Christ bare the "full" penalty of our sin?

If so...why didn't he burn forever? Or if annihilationism is correct...why wasn't he destroyed forever?

Just a random thought.

Because neither burning forever nor annihilation are the penalty for sin, rather death is the penalty and die is what Jesus did.

We will now not die, we will simply be changed, no one has died since Jesus paid the penalty for the "...sins of the whole world..." only changing addresses. (that ought to stir it up?)

[Sept5SavedTeen]

Why do you keep on using the phrase, "bring many sons to glory", when to become a son of GOD, one must believe in HIM, as John 1 says. Also, does UR take the position that humans are innately good, because my knowledge of the Bible puts man as innately evil, and therefore finding "gold" in a sinner isn't going to happen, as much as they are beaten up and burned.

-Bro. Alex

[Shawn]

I believe UR sees man in it's fallen state, but doesn't deny the fact that we need to forsake sin. But it's not about our goodness or lack there of....I think we already know the answer to that. Jesus is the one that payed the price. The only one that could.