Quote:
Originally Posted by trickledown
Sam I hope you like this...
Well to keep the debate going, remember the words of Bro. Urshan...He is speaking of a trip to russia where
he had already been and had seen many people filled with the Holy
Ghost.
"I objected to such a thing then. I had come to the conclusion to
baptize the new repenting souls in Jesus Christ's name, but never
those who were already baptized. In spite of my personal feeling on
the subject, I was almost begged to baptize some who once were already
baptized.... I tried to discourage it, and told the folks it was not
necessary at all and that it would bring trouble and division among
them. I went as far as to tell them of the havoc that very thing had
created in America and then I plainly stated that I would not
rebaptize them.... I prayed hard against rebaptism and branded it to
be a trick of the devil to destroy that good revival."
God Bless Gov Palin. I think Acts 2:38 is the only way to do anything if you are OP.
If you are not OP, well then Matt. 28:19 might hold a lot of weight. Either way, the disciples weren't this extreme in their squabbles. Wether or not she was or wasn't, there are AoG pastors that I am friends with who at least have had a kind word and been more than willing to befriend me with my oneness beliefs. |
Speaking of Bro. A.D. Urshan, here are two posts about him that I have posted before. The first is how he got saved way before he ever heard about water baptistm in Jesus name and the Holy Ghost baptistm. The second is how he started to baptize in Jesus name and how he got baptized in Jesus name:
1. Andrew Urshan's conversion
This is an account of Andrew Urshan’s conversion. I have a book titled “The Life of Andrew Bar David Urshan” which came from the Pentecostal Publishing House. Inside the cover it says that the first printing was circa 1918 and then reprinted in 1998. I also have several old magazines called “The Witness of God” which were published by Andrew Urshan. The first is dated January, 1946 and the last is dated December, 1946. The story in the magazine is pretty much the same as in the book but the date of the conversion is given as a Wednesday night in1901 in the magazine but as both 1899 and 1900 in the book. Also the location of Urmiah is spelled a couple of different ways in the book. Andrew Urshan was born in1884 and died in 1967.
Below is the account from the book.
On a windy night in March, in the year 1900 in Urumia City, Persia, when sitting with about 200 lads in the American Presbyterian Mission College, singing the blessed hymn, “Oh happy day that fixed my choice,” the Spirit of God seized me with great conviction and caused me to stop and think and to ask myself the question, “Am I really happy because Jesus has washed away my sins?” I was reproved and had to confess myself a hypocrite, and that broke my heart, and I instantly broke into tears as my sins were pictured before my eyes. Then I cried unto God for forgiveness and deliverance in Jesus’ name and the Lord heard me. I put my trust in the promises, “Whosoever shall call on the name of the Lord shall be saved,” and “Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and thou shalt be saved;” and, the Spirit witnessed to my spirit that I had been born again and had been made a new creature in Christ Jesus.
With a new and tender heart and broken spirit, and with tears of repentance and joy, I sang the rest of the hymn not a hypocrite this time, but a truly happy, blood bought, blood washed child of the King. Oh, that wonderful night! that beautiful spot! that mourning bench in that school! And oh, that sweet effect of the gracious, crucified Saviour and risen Lord! Never will it be forgotten. It is still burning now as a clear blaze of the glory of God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Ghost.
from pages 31 and 32, from chapter VI titled “My Conversion” in the book
and from page 7, of the magazine The Witness of God January, 1946
2. Andrew Urshan on baptism and rebaptism
Recently I read two different autobiographies of Andrew Urshan. One was printed serially in several magazines in 1946. The other was written in 1918 and is available from the UPC publishing house. The book from 1918 tells about his birth and childhood and conversion as a young man in Persia, his trip to the U.S., his baptism in the Spirit, and his ministry in the U.S., Persia, and Russia. There is no mention of his baptism in Jesus' name (unless I missed it). The magazine articles covered a lot of the same information but they do talk about baptism in Jesus' name. Andrew Urshan was sprinkled as a baby in the Presbyterian manner. Later as a young man he was immersed. He later had some questions concerning water baptism and came to the conclusion that, "The Lord Jesus Christ is the One Proper Name of the whole Deity for this Gospel dispensation because in Him, Jesus Christ our Lord, all the fullness of the Godhead dwells and to Him all the power in Heaven and earth was given" He goes on to say, "...This was indeed a wonderful revelation of the Trinity in Christ....seeing the great value of the baptism invested in faith in the One Name of the triune God..." He goes on to say that he had a tract published about this revelation, that he had
Acts 2:38 painted above the baptistry tank and that he began to baptize new converts "into the Name of the Lord Jesus Christ which is the One Name of the Father, Son, and the Holy Ghost." This is on page 10 of a magazine titled The Witness of God, edition no. 3 of 1946. He said this happened in 1910 while pastoring an assembly at Sheffield and Montana Street in Chicago, Illinois. It is interesting that although he started baptizing new converts this way, he did not practice rebaptism. He later went back to Persia and then to Russia. In 1915 while preaching in Russia, he hoped no one would want to be water baptized because he knew it had become a controversy in the U.S. and he did not want to join in with either side of the issue. He did decide not to do any baptizing unless some one specifically requested baptism using the name of Jesus. A new convert came to him, pointing to
Acts 8:16 in a Bible, and asked for baptism according to this verse. Several days later they went out into the woods to a river, cleared away two feet of snow, broke a hole trough the ice and baptized several people. There were more converts and a few days later more wanted to be baptized. Bro. Urshan preached on
Isaiah 9:6 about "the sonship of Jesus and the Divine Fatherhood in Him." He then talked about baptism in Jesus' Name. As a result some who had been previously baptized requested rebaptism.
Here is what Bro. Urshan wrote about his attitude toward rebaptism.
"I objected to such a thing then. I had come to the conclusion to baptize the new repenting souls in Jesus Christ's name, but never those who were already baptized. In spite of my personal feeling on the subject, I was almost begged to baptize some who once were already baptized.... I tried to discourage it, and told the folks it was not necessary at all and that it would bring trouble and division among them. I went as far as to tell them of the havoc that very thing had created in America and then I plainly stated that i would not rebaptize them.... I prayed hard against rebaptism and branded it to be a trick of the devil to destroy that good revival." When they insisted on being rebaptized, he told them to go ahead and rebaptize one another. He told them that he himself had not been rebaptized and wanted to return to America and discuss it more fully with people there. Finally they prevailed upon him and he asked an elderly Russian to rebaptise him and then he baptized about 75 people in Jesus' Name.
Even though he had now been rebaptized, when Bro. Urshan returned to the U.S. he continued to fellowship and preach among those who practiced both types of baptism. Later, he was forced to choose sides and he sided with the "New Issue" or Jesus' name baptism.
Just a little history lesson for you.
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