Tithing…Is it a command?

[SwordmanJr]

Originally Posted by HaShaliach

....If anyone is convicted in their heart that tithing is a personal requirement upon you – even established and settled by the Spirit of God, then by all means continue to tithe! Do not allow anyone to persuade you differently!

Each person must still ask himself: Is what I feel about this truly from the Lord, or is it a result of the mental programming I've sat under for so many years, being told that I MUST tithe, and that not doing so is robbing God?

Another question that must be asked is: Does the Lord TRULY go around motivating people to do that which is diabolically opposed to His written word by instructing them to hand over the lion's share of their giving over to something that, in most cases, consumes the majority of it for its own uses?

Is it an exercise in honesty to lavish one's own giving upon himself and his fellow, institutional members, and still call that "giving to God"?

Do token outreaches by institutions justify our handing over to them the primary portion of our giving?

These are some serious considerations that must be taken into account when asking one's self as to whether they are hearing from God, or their own ego and feelings.

If the Bible isn't a legitimate acid test for any and all inclinations one receives from who they think is the Lord, then you may as well throw it away, because such people have become just as worldly and materialistic as any relativistic, humanistic, secularist, unbeliever. They too rely strictly upon how they feel about things, which is relativism at its peak.

[UrbanMissions]

Originally Posted by HaShaliach

I was very tired last night: Levities should have read, Leviticus. No doubt there are other such language problems. Again, the short answer to the question, "Is tithing a command [to the N.T. church]?" No, it is not.

Simple enough .

[SwordmanJr]

Originally Posted by HaShaliach

...."Is tithing a command [to the N.T. church]?" No, it is not.

And yet there are a plethora of men standing behind pulpits every week, and men spouting on TV every week, about the NT command to tithe. They seem to see the word "tithe" and the address of "pastors" on almost every other page of the NT.

Do you suppose there's some sort of conspiracy afoot? Otherwise, why would these men teach such junk.

Surely it can't be GREED....can it.........?

[A.W. Bowman]

There are two forces at work here.

The first is definitely greed on the part of some men. I have also noticed that a great many members of the “ministry” are related either by blood or by marriage. It is almost suggestive of new heredity priesthood. Hey, when you have a good thing going – go for it! But, this brush is far too wide to paint everyone with. It is an unfair judgment.

therefore, we must note that there is also another force at work, i.e., a misplaced/applied measurement of an individual’s spiritual standing/maturity. In today’s churches, we have placed the giving of tithes and offerings at the top of the list for measuring, evaluating, and establishing one’s level of spirituality (maturity). While the giving/sharing of resources with one another, including support of the preaching of the gospel, giving should be a “byproduct, not the prime product” of a local church body.

While it is often said that one should not give in order to receive back your gift and gain interest (God being your banker), that is never-the-less what is preached! Give in order to receive your blessings! You need money, give your money way to xyz religious group to receive your financial security. We decry TV preachers for the very thing we do from the pulpit. The difference? We don’t have scheduled commercial breaks. Yet, the message remains: Pay tribute to the local temple and its priest and you can buy your blessings - you cannot out give God! Therefore give to get. Give all you have (even the widow’s mite, the widow’s last bit of oil and flower, etc.) and you’ll not go without your needs being met.

The problem is that this kind of giving is what has been taught to the saints of God for over fifteen hundred years! There are many well meaning preachers who believe this in their hearts and preach/teach it with all of their personal conviction. Traditions are very hard to break! Even so, God is trustworthy and faithful, God still responds to an individual’s faith and faithfulness. When one gives with the right attitude, God responds in a like attitude! When we not trying to barter with God, God will not barter with us! If God did consent to barter with us, we would lose and die. So, if in your heart you agree with yourself to give a certain amount of money, time, or talent to the assembly for supporting the preaching of the gospel and for mutual assistance within the assembly, do so. Do it with joy, giving freely of your resources, even with thanksgiving (without a money-lender’s attitude hidden in your heart). Not out of compliance to the letter of the law, but out of the abundance of your heart, “as God has prospered you”.

Even so, neither accept any condemnation or unearned guilt for your decisions for whatever the amount it is you choose to give, or whatever term you may call it. If one has nothing of physical value to give, that person should be receiving assistance from the rest of a humble assembly, not being judged as spiritually inferior to those who can give. Therefore, let us all keep our conscience clear before God – for it is He to whom we shall all have to answer, not men.


Finally, consider this:

Should anyone have to pay a tribute in order to minister (exercise their spiritual gifts) within an assembly of believers? What about a so-called “platform ministry”? (1Cor 14)?

[SwordmanJr]

Originally Posted by HaShaliach

There are two forces at work here.

Originally Posted by HaShaliach

The first is definitely greed on the part of some men.

I think you're underestimating the extent to which greed has implanted itself into the hearts of men. Many of them don't realize how greedy they are when all they have ever been taught is to follow the status quo. Many don't know any different. That doesn't mean that they won't be held accountable for their false beliefs in the last day, but inculpibility is not an excuse, especially when they've been put on notice right from the scriptures.

therefore, we must note that there is also another force at work, i.e., a misplaced/applied measurement of an individual’s spiritual standing/maturity. In today’s churches, we have placed the giving of tithes and offerings at the top of the list for measuring, evaluating, and establishing one’s level of spirituality (maturity).

You have put your finger right on the jugular of the culprit......GREED. Nepotism has very deep roots in GREED. I realize some will try and escape to the mole hill of the bloodline priesthood of the OT. Fortunately, that is indeed nothing more than a mole-hill sanctuary for a phenomenon most people look upon and assume has some sort of endearment involved.




Jr.

[SwordmanJr]

Originally Posted by Scott Hutchinson

However anybody with any common sense knows that ministries need the support of God's people,and churches have bills to pay.

I like the manipulative ploy you use in the above statement. I'd like to use that one too, if I may:

Anyone with common sense knows that not all ministries and institutional church organizations are WORTHY of believer's support, especially those that teach falsehoods, because more than 93% of them all are self-seeking and self-absorbed. Given the array of doctrinal deviations within most of them, that leads to the conclusion that the vast majority of ministries, parachurch and church organizations deserve to bite the dust.

What verse in the Bible states that every ministry any man has ever dreamed up is wirthy of our support? Our divinity cemetaries and Bible colleges are cranking out alleged ministers by the tens of thousands every year. They ALL feel that they're called by God into the ministry.

I'd like to put forth that most of them responded improperly to a call to which ALL true believers have been called. But, the vast majority of them experience the dream of one day heading up their own institutional church organization, and thus being the centerpiece of why many people gather into those places of religious exercise. What's insteresting is that, with the market being flooded by kids with divinity and/or ministry degrees of some sort, more and more of the larger institutions will hire ONLY those men who have a masters or doctoral level degree, or who have a proven record of successful growth in their past, and who weren't fired for leading a wife-swapping ring in their previous job.

Hell is ruling most cities across our nation, and yet most towns and cities have an institutional church building or some other sort of parachurch ministry every half mile of city travel.

The bottom line is that if one sows sparingly they will reap sparingly,and if one sows bountifully they will reap the same.

The vast majority of sowing to which we've been called has very little to do with money. It's only the greedy money-mongers out there who speak as if the sum total of that concept involves money. When Jesus spoke of sowing, money had absolutely nothing whatsoever to do with His meaning. It had ONLY to do with the Gospel message.

One should not muzzle the ox that threadeth the corn and those that minister of the gospel shall live of the gospel.

It's indeed granted that every ox one purchases is expected to do the work to which it has been purchased and placed. That foundational concept simply doesn't apply to all those men out there seeking to start a money-based ministry.

For example, Jesus sent His disciples out with no extra tunic, shoes or clothing. He instructed them that they would receive their support only from those to whom they ministered.

Is that example followed today? Rarely.....if ever at all. Foreign missionaries frequently return back here to America to beg around for support, if they aren't members of a missionary organization that provides their needed support. They show pictures of their wonderful accomplishments, none of which can be verified by the viewers watching the slide-show.

Jesus' disciples returned with testimonies that they lacked nothing. It's interesting how religious people will point at Jesus' words to the pharasees, who were still under the Law, about tithing, and assume that instruction is binding upon us today, but they completely ignore His commands to the disciples about their missionary endeavors.

A tenth certainly is a reasonable amount to give.

A tenth is absolutely reasonable for the more wealthy to give, which is those who can afford such. Given that our primary responsibility in giving is to meet needs of fellow believers, and the needs of those in our respective communities, a tenth is simply unreasonable to most wage-earners, because they would then end up living a lower standard of financial life, all in the name of having a fancier communal facility. That conclusion, my friend, is a completely unreasonable expectation to it all, mostly because it has no biblical basis whatsoever within the word of God so far as I can see. I say that because your premise is faulty, being that any and all ministry is worthy of support. You didn't prequalify your premise with any measure of balance, so I'm left with the assumption that your premise was errected upon that very sentiment.

Jr.

[Godsdrummer]

Originally Posted by SwordmanJr

A tenth is absolutely reasonable for the more wealthy to give, which is those who can afford such. Given that our primary responsibility in giving is to meet needs of fellow believers, and the needs of those in our respective communities, a tenth is simply unreasonable to most wage-earners, because they would then end up living a lower standard of financial life, all in the name of having a fancier communal facility. That conclusion, my friend, is a completely unreasonable expectation to it all, mostly because it has no biblical basis whatsoever within the word of God so far as I can see. I say that because your premise is faulty, being that any and all ministry is worthy of support. You didn't prequalify your premise with any measure of balance, so I'm left with the assumption that your premise was errected upon that very sentiment.

Jr.

Come on people yes I a going to sing a differant song than I have. Did not Jesus say as you have done to the least of these you have done unto me. He also says give and it shall be given... back to you...Check out Luke chapter 6 all the giving Jesus taught his diciples had to do with helping others. I one wants to give into the Kingdom of God than give into the Kingdom but remmeber God will hold us accountable as to how we use the blessings he has givin us.

As for giving God will bless those who do give as unto God so don't stop giving just make sure your giving to something that is truely going to increse the Kingdom of God or help his children.

[SwordmanJr]

The Lord doesn't need our money. He owns cattle on a thousand hills.....unless someone has rustled them all.....

I agree that giving to the Lord is done through giving to His people who are in need.

Giving to support a facility and its staffing (although that's something we're allowed to do secondarily to our primary responsibilities toward one another and toward those in need in our respective communities) is a matter of supporting something that should be done far down the ladder of priorities.

This idea that giving in support of such things is synonymous with giving to God and/or His Kingdom is mostly an emotional argument more than its an argument rooted in scripture......unless someone can show me otherwise.

Jr.

[rava61]

So, basically if we believe and practice 'tithing', then we have fallen into the same trap of the Catholic Church in believing that we can 'buy our way into heaven'?

[rava61]

Oh, something else.....someone mentioned Abraham's seed. Wow, what a twisted thought - please go back to the flood to find where we Gentiles come from; there were three sons born to Noah...............we are not descended from Abraham, sorry.