The Sabbath Day, Should You Keep or not Keep?

[Raffi]

For a little clarification, you keep saying that I claim that the Curse comes upon one for some other reason than DOING THE WHOLE LAW. Um, well I don't think I said anything like that, because I agree that The Curse comes upon any person who fails to actively keep ALL the Commandments. Of course, that means applicable Commandments. Obviously, a man would not be cursed because he cannot keep the laws of niddah, or a common man cursed because he cannot fulfill the priestly ordinances. In total, any average individual would only need to keep somewhere around 150 to 200 Commandments out of the total 613. I do not think that doing such a thing is impossible. He has made Law Keeping easy for His people.
God expected His People to keep His Law. He told the People that it was not hard to do, and that the People did not have an excuse.

I agree with what you say, that the ACTUAL failure to keep The Law results in The Curse. Was I not clear that that is what I believe?

[Raffi]

See Deut 30:12-14

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by Raffi

For a little clarification, you keep saying that I claim that the Curse comes upon one for some other reason than DOING THE WHOLE LAW. Um, well I don't think I said anything like that, because I agree that The Curse comes upon any person who fails to actively keep ALL the Commandments. Of course, that means applicable Commandments. Obviously, a man would not be cursed because he cannot keep the laws of niddah, or a common man cursed because he cannot fulfill the priestly ordinances. In total, any average individual would only need to keep somewhere around 150 to 200 Commandments out of the total 613. I do not think that doing such a thing is impossible. He has made Law Keeping easy for His people.
God expected His People to keep His Law. He told the People that it was not hard to do, and that the People did not have an excuse.

I agree with what you say, that the ACTUAL failure to keep The Law results in The Curse. Was I not clear that that is what I believe?

Please read my posts again because I later realized what you meant earlier and highlighted it in red, noting that I missed your point until you made it clearer.

[Raffi]

Cool, just making sure I didn't leave you or any body else with an impression I did not intend.

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by Raffi

Cool, just making sure I didn't leave you or any body else with an impression I did not intend.

I never caught it til you said this:

The Blessing is not in mechanical obedience, but in loving obedience.
Again, this agrees with the Hebraic concept of "faith" emunah we are introduced to in v. 6.

So, I will respond to that issue as I continue.

When you said, "using The Commandments INCORRECTLY leaves one under The Curse," it made me think you referred to abuse of the Law like Pharisees did it.

[Steven Avery]

Originally Posted by Raffi

Hebrew Primacy is a serious school of thought, not some mere childish fantasy concocted be irreponsible dummies. Whether you or anyone chooses to agree with the major premises of the view, I don't think you would deny that at the ROOT of the existing Greek Gospels there simply HAS to be a Hebrew original.

Clearly that is wrong. History shows us it is wrong, even by the exceptional cases (like the other book by Matthew which was in Hebrew.)

And the internal translations in our Gospel books are essentially a proof that they were not translated from Hebrew or Aramaic. Similarly the fact that writings like that of Luke and Paul's epistles are clearly not translation Greek. (Mark however may be, likely because he wrote in Latin, or a Graeco-Latin dialect.)

Originally Posted by Raffi

Yeshua/Jesus did not preach his great revelation in Greek. He preached to his hearers in their language, and that was either Hebrew or Aramaic, or both.

And some Greek. G. Scott Gleaves is an example of a writer who has tackled this question in the last years. An undertext? Not for the books that are in a nicely refined Greek. Some Gospel stories beginning transmission in Hebrew or Aramaic? Sure, likely. (However, those stories do not a major undertext make.) The Matthew example basically proves by omission that it was only Gospel writer who wrote in Hebrew, and that was a different book than our canonical Matthew, as we learn from Jerome.

Originally Posted by Raffi

As far as Sacred, or Set-Apart Names, I know no one on this forum will deny that the Tetragrammaton is a real element in the text of the Hebrew Scripture, and that it is spelled with the four Hebrew letters YHWH.

The "W" is wrong, you can have J or Y for the first letter.

Originally Posted by Raffi

This Name has to be pronounced in SOME way corresponding to those four letters. Some DO say Yahweh.

Which is calling upon the devil jupiter, and thus is especially dangerous.

Originally Posted by Raffi

Some others say Jehovah (an obvious bastardization as that neither J, nor V existed in Biblical Hebrew),

And I see you that you are not well informed on this topic. Check Nehemia Gordon out on the V and W question. And the question of J and Y is not "bastardization" (blasphemy on your part) it is simply a language and dialect tweak issue, which we can go into more.

Originally Posted by Raffi

or Yehoveh, or something like that. How would you have it pronounced? In my fellowship, we use the pronunciation "Yahuah" (Yah-Hu-Wah).

Jehovah, with Yehovah being acceptable.

Yahuah is simply another worthless attempt, which is the way of the sacred namers. The tetragram is 3-syllables, the full proper three vowels are in the Hebrew Bible in a remnant mode in dozens of the manuscripts (this is a strong area of Nehemia Gordon).

And the theophoric names show us "Jeho--" (or Yeho--) as the start. (This last one is essentially a proof even before the manuscripts, and has been shown by a number of excellent writers.)

Btw, I did some time with the qodesh name people so I am aware of their foibles.

You never did address the fact of the massive contradictions between the various alternative Hebrew and Aramaic theories. Where is the pure word of God?

=============

Originally Posted by Raffi

By the way, Steven, are you also a Sabbath-keeper?

The 7th-day sabbath is a fundamental part of the Decalogue, which states God's eternal law. Thus, sabbath-keeping is excellent, noting that it has the most pizazz in a community environment.

Steven

[peter83]

Do you notice that all the Sabath/feast keeping people regecting the original New Testament?
See for your self and study the language new tetament is righten and you will understand is noy by lack! Every word ,even the Names have a meaning very speicific. God uses good the Greek langiage as he used Hebrew too!
Do a study in the 7 churches on revelation for example and see that every word in the bible is God breathed!

[Esaias]

Originally Posted by peter83

Do you notice that all the Sabath/feast keeping people regecting the original New Testament?

Brother Avery does not reject the Greek New Testament. Neither do I. So obviously you are not paying attention.

[peter83]

Originally Posted by Esaias

Brother Avery does not reject the Greek New Testament. Neither do I. So obviously you are not paying attention.

For you i am sure not! (Raf post i did not read them)
Anyway i answed to you some postss before,see my post , i am not telling we dont have to keep the law, but to fulfil .
Quote:

Originally Posted by Esaias View Post
As a Christian, can you break the fifth commandment? How about the seventh? The third? How about the fourth? Weak and beggarly elements? Abstaining from idolatry is a carnal ordinance imposed until Jesus sets us free from having to actually obey God? Christian liberty = do whatever you feel motivated to do? As long as you're not doing what is written?

Sorry, but that can't possibly be correct. Who could respect a religion like that?
6th commandment: 21 Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not kill; and whosoever shall kill shall be in danger of the judgment: 22 But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire.
7th commandment 27 Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not commit adultery: 28 But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart.
I did not say to brake the law but to fulfill! "That except your righteousness shall exceed [the righteousness] of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven."

Hebrew 9:10 [Which stood] only in meats and drinks, and divers washings, and carnal ordinances, imposed [on them] until the time of reformation.
9 But now, after that ye have known God, or rather are known of God, how turn ye again to the weak and beggarly elements, whereunto ye desire again to be in bondage?Ye observe days, and months, and times, and years.. 11 I am afraid of you, lest I have bestowed upon you labour in vain.

[Aquila]

The Ten Commandments are rather pathetic really. Most could keep them in their sleep. In fact, the Ten Commandments only spell out a basement level of righteousness. They don't even mention caring for the widow, the orphan, the poor, and the stranger. They don't even require love. I can refuse to steal from a person, kill, lie, or commit adultery, and not truly love my spouse or my neighbor. I just might not want to deal with the fallout. In addition, I can be deeply "religious" and claim no other God but God, not use His name in vain, refuse to bow to idols, etc... and not truly have a personal relationship with Him. The Ten Commandments are beggardly. Obeying the Ten Commandments will keep you from getting kicked out of church, divorced, or put in jail.

We are not under the Law of the OT:

Galatians 2:21
I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.

We are under grace. And being under grace, we are under the Law of Christ:

John 15:10
If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love.

Christ's commandments sum up the entire spirit and intent of the entire Law in two commandments:

Matthew 22:37-40 King James Version (KJV)
37 Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.
38 This is the first and great commandment.
39 And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
40 On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.

If we love God, we will seek to love others. In this we fulfill the spirit and intent of the entire Law:

Romans 13:9-10 King James Version (KJV)
9 For this, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Thou shalt not covet; and if there be any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
10 Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.

Galatians 5:14 King James Version (KJV)
14 For all the law is fulfilled in one word, even in this; Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

Sounds easy? It's perhaps the hardest law to live by. We are to live as those raised from the dead, and who are dead to the Law.

Romans 7:4
Wherefore, my brethren, ye also are become dead to the law by the body of Christ; that ye should be married to another, even to him who is raised from the dead, that we should bring forth fruit unto God.

Love demands a 24/7 life of holy Spirit led devotion and love towards others. We have to realize that when we sin, it isn't the action that is the issue. It is that we failed to love as we should. If you steal from your neighbor, the issue isn't the theft. The issue is that you didn't love him enough not to steal from him. If you commit adultery, the issue isn't the sex with another. The issue is that you didn't love your wife (or the other individual) enough not to deceive, exploit, use, and emotionally damage them. It all boils down to Love.

As for the Sabbath, we know that the Sabbaths and feast days were a shadow of truths found only in Christ Jesus:

Colossians 2:16-17 King James Version (KJV)
16 Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:
17 Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ.

We walk in the rest of the Sabbath in Christ Jesus. He is our Sabbath. In fact, He is our everything. We are no longer bound by the Law and the works that it demands, we are free and called to a law of Love. A law written upon the heart. Now, every day is holy unto the Lord. Our work isn't labor and toil, but to be a joyous part of worship, for when we work, we work as though we are serving Him.

The Christian lives in a glorified resurrected reality. We can gather on any day, at any time. Historically, this evolved into Sunday. But it need not be strictly Sunday. A church can ignore Saturday and Sunday altogether and choose to gather only on Mondays and Fridays if the body desired to do so. We have a freedom of Spirit and versatility that can survive any and all circumstances. We can advance and flourish in any culture. In fact, Christianity is truly the only purely universal religion on the planet in that it can be practiced without hardship in any free society regardless of culture, dress, style, music, language, gender, race, cultural holidays, and traditions. Why retreat to the Law little children? Especially when abiding in Christ alone is so much better?

We are to now live as living extensions of Jesus. Jesus said:

John 15:1-9 King James Version (KJV)
1 I am the true vine, and my Father is the husbandman.
2 Every branch in me that beareth not fruit he taketh away: and every branch that beareth fruit, he purgeth it, that it may bring forth more fruit.
3 Now ye are clean through the word which I have spoken unto you.
4 Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, except it abide in the vine; no more can ye, except ye abide in me.
5 I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing.
6 If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned.
7 If ye abide in me, and my words abide in you, ye shall ask what ye will, and it shall be done unto you.
8 Herein is my Father glorified, that ye bear much fruit; so shall ye be my disciples.
9 As the Father hath loved me, so have I loved you: continue ye in my love.

He is the vine, we are the branches. We are one spirit with Him (I Corinthians 6:17). Our focus needs to be living incarnationally, Living in a manner that manifests Christ Jesus in our lives and the lives of those around us. Sabbath keeping, dress codes, feast days, etc., etc., etc., take our attention off of Christ alone and turns it to our practice. It glorifies the rule over the Redeemer.

No other faith has such freedom or liberty. No other faith has such freedom and liberty of conscience. No other freedom has such freedom and liberty to walk in what the Spirit intends for you personally.

Now, if you feel convicted that you must observe a day. Then my beloved, do so in liberty, unto the Lord, not by obligation. If you feel convicted that you do not have to observe a day, and regard every day as being the same, then do so unto the Lord. Because the one who feels they must honor a day does so in honor of God. And he who doesn't, honors every day alike in honor of God. In whatever you do, let it be to honor God from a sincere and loving heart. And do not judge your brother who regards the day, nor judge your brother who doesn't. Because your brother doesn't serve you. He is Christ's servant.

Romans 14:4-6 King James Version (KJV)
4 Who art thou that judgest another man's servant? to his own master he standeth or falleth. Yea, he shall be holden up: for God is able to make him stand.
5 One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day alike. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind.
6 He that regardeth the day, regardeth it unto the Lord; and he that regardeth not the day, to the Lord he doth not regard it. He that eateth, eateth to the Lord, for he giveth God thanks; and he that eateth not, to the Lord he eateth not, and giveth God thanks.

Do not let legalism tighten the noose around the neck of the body. It begins to demand conformity and control. A conformity and control that isn't of the Spirit. Legalism is indeed sin. So, do not allow sin to reign over you, walk in the liberty Christ purchased for you on Calvary's cross. Only do not use that liberty to brazenly sin, but be called to a higher law that is infinitely higher than the Ten Commandments, the Law of Love.

Amen.